This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while and have finally decided is best for me to do. I’m going to be leaving the Profiler community for an indeterminate length of time.
I will no longer participate in the forum or be contributing.

I am NOT being driven away by any one incident or specific user. This is simply the culmination of numerous events.

Generally speaking using Profiler doesn’t make me as happy as it used to. So while I have every intention of continuing to use the program it’s not out of some misguided sense of loyalty; it’s simply because I can’t be bothered to start using another program from scratch.

Here’s a few reasons why:
The Credited As system is a total pain in the rear end. Too much research involved which takes way too much of my time. Too many threads devoted to a broken system.

The Birth Year process is also a total nightmare. There will never come a time when we will find DOBs for all the people we need to. Once again it’s far too time consuming (if I’m spending hours locating DOBs that could be spent updating more profiles then the system is flawed IMO).

The rules still cause too many conflicts and differences of opinion in the forum which never get resolved. Invelos do not participate enough in these discussions to resolve them quickly; thereby fuelling conflict. The couple of minutes required of Invelos to resolve some of these rules issues would prevent so much bad feeling.

The inability to submit re-release information is a fatal flaw IMO – especially because as time goes by more and more stuff is re-released and none of it can be tracked properly using the online db.

Very few people ever say thank you anymore. I don’t contribute profiles to bolster my own contribution record or to inflate my sense of self-importance. I do it so others can benefit from the work I’m doing anyway. But...sometimes it’s nice to get a pat on the back. Too many users are content to sit back and let everyone else do the work (and I’m not referring to most forum members, because you are obviously more involved).

Which leads me to a conversation I recently had with my sister.
I was blowing off steam regarding all things Profiler and she asked me a simple question:
“Why do you bother?”
I attempted to explain to her that I used to enjoy the process of creating a profile and making sure it was the best I could make it and then letting others enjoy it too.
“How do you know they appreciate it?” she asked.
“Ummm,” was my eloquent reply.
“I couldn’t be bothered with all the stuff you do,” she continued. “I just want to know what DVDs I own and when I watched them, everything else is just stuffing. The program looks nice and that’s why I use it. I don’t care about all the other stuff.”
I attempted to explain that if all the users of Profiler felt like that we wouldn’t have a very good database.
“But everything you’ve told me says you don’t anyway.”
“Ummm.”
“You’re always telling me about all the things that don’t work properly. Maybe you should be more like me,” she smiled. “I enjoy using the program, because for me there is no baggage attached. I can use it in exactly the way I want and I don’t have to answer to anyone. Also, I’m positive that I’m in the majority.”
“That’s true,” I grudgingly admitted. “There are thousands of users and only a handful of those participate in the forum or contribute.”
“Well, there you go then.”

I’ve been thinking about this ever since and I can’t argue with her. She’s completely correct.

What does it matter if the forum members discuss Dividers or Studios or the common name for some obscure Sound Mixer; or whether a DOB is required for someone? It’s all totally pointless because the majority proportion of Profiler users will never know about those conversations. Not only will they be unaware of some forum decision, but they won’t follow it. And why should they?
Invelos writes and posts the contribution rules and ALL users have the right to follow those rules as written; so if some forum decision contradicts the rules these people won’t be aware of it. Therefore they won’t follow it which could lead to them getting lots of NO votes and subsequently not bothering to contribute again because they won’t understand why they’re getting shot down for following the rules.
But, even more importantly, I personally feel that most users don’t bother reading the rules anyway because they don’t contribute.
They use Profiler the way they want to use it. If they want to assign a common name of their choosing they do. If they want to maintain their Studios so that names are consistent they do. If they want to make up a DOB just to get the job done of separating cast/crew they do. But, even more importantly, they’re completely happy doing so.
I also feel that if you don’t contribute then you shouldn’t participate in discussions regarding contributions. Too many people have an opinion on how things should be done; but can’t actually be bothered to do those things themselves. So, they’ll make the process difficult for the rest of us but will still benefit from the work. It’s totally unfair and selfish IMO.

Also the online db is of absolutely no use to me and it never has been. I audit every title I own personally so it doesn’t matter if the profile is complete or empty. I also have never benefitted from the work of others while not giving back something in return. Therefore, I see no benefit to contributing at all – which is how most people think I would surmise.

I personally feel that the forum and the rules have gradually made contributing to the online database harder and less enjoyable...and as far as I can see the improvements are not worth the time and effort involved. Except for a brief period I have always contributed. I’ve adapted to the changes in the program and the rules and never, knowingly, submitted anything incorrectly; but it hasn’t been easy. In fact, it’s been more like work than a hobby; and that’s wrong.

Recently I upped my participation in the forums and, boy, do I regret that decision. Once again I got drawn into the toxicity and felt myself drowning. And, to cap everything off, I posted some comments about Skip that I would never have done a few months ago.
While I stand by what I said (because 10 years of experience brought me to my conclusions) the simple fact is I should NEVER have posted how I felt in an open forum. It was rude and unnecessary. It achieved nothing other than to vent my spleen and hurt someone. So, Skip, I apologise for saying what I did in the forum even though I stand by it (I realise that this is a back-handed apology, but it’s the best I can manage).
The fact that I felt frustrated and angry enough to resort to the very behaviour I abhor also tells me it’s time to leave the forums.

So, until further notice:
I will no longer contribute because I see no benefit in continuing to do so. I also feel that I may regain some of my enjoyment if I’m not having to jump through hoops so lazy and ungrateful people can benefit from what I do. Actually, point in fact, a while back I did a full audit on some child profiles. Someone cloned that information and posted it in the parent profile – and they didn’t have the decency to even say a thank you to me. It’s not much to say “I cloned User X’s work from UPC/EAN profile”.
The sad thing is I have absolutely no doubt that profiles I have audited fully and submitted will, over time, be slowly destroyed by users who don’t follow the rules. How do I know this: well a little over 3 years ago I finished a full audit of my films...in the last few weeks I have re-audited just 140 of these for 3.6 crew (out of thousands) and I was disgusted at how many had been corrupted with IMDB data – but the contribution notes stated “changes taken from film credits”. So, once again, I think: Why do I bother if a bunch of liars are simply going to destroy everything I’ve done?

I will no longer participate or visit the forum on a regular basis because it’s not an enjoyable experience. Everyone (including myself) who has ever contributed to the atmosphere in the forum should be ashamed of themselves. It’s meant to be fun people! Not torture.

My intention is to not return to contributions or the forum until such time that I feel that the program issues are resolved and more user friendly, and until Invelos have called in an exorcist for the forum. I have contacts within the community who, I’m sure, will let me know when/if things change.

Lastly I would like to thank all the people who do take the time to thank other users for their hard work and whose presence in the forum is a benefit.

Very sorry to hear that, Pantheon - your contributions have been consitently excellent and your opinions always thoughtful and considered... but more than that, I'll just miss you not being around as to me you feel like a friend I've just never met in person.

Stay happy and enjoy your extra time with your DVDs/BDs/family/other!

Neill:

I think you know I share many of your frustrations and i hope that you will not stay away too long. I do agree that, from my point of view some of the things ken has addressed in the program, while ignoring issues such as re-releases, the problems created by the CLT failure and so forth. I will say I am most disappointed that Ken as you said will not take a few minutes to weigh in, this would prevent much of bad feelings we are experiencing. But I thin k the single most troubling thing i am seeing are the changes which are being made  which are ill-advised.

Hope to see you back soon, pal.

Sad to see you leave Pantheon. Your contributions have been very much appreciated and while I don't agree with everything you post, your arguments have always been well thought out

Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:

Very few people ever say thank you anymore. I don’t contribute profiles to bolster my own contribution record or to inflate my sense of self-importance. I do it so others can benefit from the work I’m doing anyway. But...sometimes it’s nice to get a pat on the back.

Just wanted to quote this part as it is something I agree very much on. A small thank in your yes vote or a green arrow on the contribution notes are much appreciated if the contributor has worked hard on a contribution. As you say, it's nice to get a pat on the back sometimes and motivates for more contributions.

Really sad to see you leave.
Your contributions always were excellent ones.

I am also fully with you on the BYs and the Credited as system.

But opposing to you, I simply do not care much about it, I hardly ever use the credited as system, I hardly ever look for BYs, I also never contribute full crew, cuz I do not care about them either.

I just contribute what i think is important and let the community hopefully benefit from it.

I think the two main reasons more and more people are leaving here is how Ken is handling those forums and that the rules are getting more obnoxious and complicated on a weekly basis.

This whole program should be kept a bit more simple, not so immensly detailed in everything, the more details, the more rules, the more frustration.
Just my 2 cents.

Hopefully we will see you back someday.

enjoy life
Donnie

I have always enjoyed the conversations we have had, and many have made me rethink possibilties.  I may have not ever personally thanked you, but your work has always been appreciated.

If Profiler is not bringing any enjoyment to you, then you are right, it is time to stand back and reevaluate.

Please return soon, your presence will be missed.

And for the record

THANX

Charlie

Sorry to see you leave... it is always sad to see a contributing member decide to stop.

We don't always agree on everything... but you hit on a few things that I definitely agree with here.

Wish you the best of luck and hope you find peace of mind by stepping away from all this.

Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:
Very few people ever say thank you anymore...

I know this is not the only reason you're taking a break, nor is it as simplistic as the part I'm quoting might lead someone to believe, but I just thought I'd voice my philosophy when it comes to this part of it.

If I don't agree with a rule I don't follow the rule, but also don't contribute it. Only when my way of looking at things are on par with the rules do I actually contribute data to the online. And when I do contribute, I have a personal rule that says I only ever contribute something once.

Meaning, if a cover isn't liked by the community, or if my interpretation of a rule differs from the community, or if a submission is rejected for whatever reason... well, that's it, I'm not going to re-work something that I am personally happy with. The work I did is still in my local to be enjoyed by me. If the community and/or screeners don't want it, that's no skin off my nose.

The end result is that the work I do, I do for myself. I contribute that work because I see no reason not to. If others can benefit from my work, that's great! But I'm not going to do a bunch of work that follows the rules precisely, submit it, and then change it all to suit my own preferences. It's admirable when someone do do that, but as far as I'm concerned that would only lead to my resentment of the rules and those who benefit from work I have no use for.

Perhaps this kind of philosophy is selfish and counter to the overall methodology of DVD Profiler, but I found it's better for my mental health and the database still benefits from some of the work I do.

edited to add: I just realized I hadn't really connected the above with the quote.    My point was simply that personally I don't really care if people thank me for the work I do, simply because I didn't do the work for anyone but myself in the first place.