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Questions about British television series crew credits
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCorne
Registered: Nov. 1, 2000
Registered: April 5, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,059
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I'm auditing some British television series and I came across some crew credits I can't really put a finger on:

Vision Mixer
Video Tape Editor
Camera Supervisor
Lighting

Lighting is in the crew chart but in combination with Photography. So does solely a Lighting credit get a Cinematographer credit? And what about the other three? If there's no Film Editor credited, is it alright adding a Video Tape Editor? What if both Film Editor and Video Tape Editor are credited? Camera Supervisor does get a Cinematographer credit because it's a supervising credit?
Cor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Allow me to make a general remark first: there's often a big difference between (a) whether (some of) these people are indeed exactly the people we're after, and (b) if they get a credit in DVD Profiler or not. A strict reading of the rules will allow very few of these credit variations, while others have argued in favor of "functional equivalents", and are routinely entering them, or else justify entering them by referring to them as "direct translations" of the American terms that are listed in the crew credits table. Without trying to sound sarcastic, people basically do whatever they want.

Quote:
Vision Mixer

As of yet, I've never tracked these. A look at the Wikipedia-entry and various other explanations returned from a Google-search isn't making me reconsider that decision, either.

Quote:
Video Tape Editor

If it's a show shot on videotape, as opposed of being shot on film, and it's the only editing credit, then yeah, I would consider the "Videotape Editor" to be the guy we're after.

Quote:
Camera Supervisor

I haven't been tracking these, although I too have several British shows where this is the only cinematography-related credit. And when it's indeed the only guy in the credits with a job that somehow relates to the image we see on the screen, I can understand the desire to track him, but since it's so far from anything shown in the crew credits table, I haven't contributed anything like this into the online database. If I've felt the urge to track some of these, then I've kept it local. I don't buy the "supervising" approach: that would apply if "Camera" was a valid credit, but "Camera" isn't mentioned as a valid job in the rules either.

Quote:
Lighting

Just "Lighting" I wouldn't enter. Having said that, it's funny that the rules name "Lighting & Photography by" as a valid "Cinematographer" credit, but not any other variation with "Lighting" in it, which is clearly problematic. On one hand, it indicates that there is indeed some validity in these "Lighting" credits, but unlike is done for many other crew credits, it doesn't go on to list some additional variations. It is, however, true that "Lighting Director" is, in certain cases, the U.K. translation of the American term "Director of Photography". In certain cases where I was absolutely sure that the guy credited as "Lighting Director" was indeed the d.o.p., I have indeed given that guy a "Cinematographer' credit. But if it's just "Lighting" and nothing more, I'd leave it out.

Quote:
What if both Film Editor and Video Tape Editor are credited?

Difficult... In my experience, these are British shows in which the interiors are shot in the studio, on videotape, and there's also a little bit of location footage, shot on film. And then the footage shot on tape is edited by one guy, and the footage shot on film is edited by another guy. If we've decided that "Videotape Editor" is valid, then I wouldn't suddenly declare it invalid when an additional bit of location footage shot on film is edited by another guy - after all, the bulk of that episode is still edited by that same "Videotape Editor". Off-topic: these UK shows with footage on tape from the studio and footage on film for some exterior scenes often also have separate sound guys for recording the sound in the studio and recording the location sound (sometimes even referred to as film sound).
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantSpab
Registered: July 8, 2010
United Kingdom Posts: 52
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I would say that Video Tape Editor should be be given a film editor credit but judging from the Doctor Who profiles I have seen most people seem to disagree.

The other 3 don't seem to fit any of the standard roles.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCorne
Registered: Nov. 1, 2000
Registered: April 5, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,059
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Allow me to make a general remark first: there's often a big difference between (a) whether (some of) these people are indeed exactly the people we're after, and (b) if they get a credit in DVD Profiler or not. A strict reading of the rules will allow very few of these credit variations, while others have argued in favor of "functional equivalents", and are routinely entering them, or else justify entering them by referring to them as "direct translations" of the American terms that are listed in the crew credits table. Without trying to sound sarcastic, people basically do whatever they want.

Quote:
Vision Mixer

As of yet, I've never tracked these. A look at the Wikipedia-entry and various other explanations returned from a Google-search isn't making me reconsider that decision, either.

Quote:
Video Tape Editor

If it's a show shot on videotape, as opposed of being shot on film, and it's the only editing credit, then yeah, I would consider the "Videotape Editor" to be the guy we're after.

Quote:
Camera Supervisor

I haven't been tracking these, although I too have several British shows where this is the only cinematography-related credit. And when it's indeed the only guy in the credits with a job that somehow relates to the image we see on the screen, I can understand the desire to track him, but since it's so far from anything shown in the crew credits table, I haven't contributed anything like this into the online database. If I've felt the urge to track some of these, then I've kept it local. I don't buy the "supervising" approach: that would apply if "Camera" was a valid credit, but "Camera" isn't mentioned as a valid job in the rules either.

Quote:
Lighting

Just "Lighting" I wouldn't enter. Having said that, it's funny that the rules name "Lighting & Photography by" as a valid "Cinematographer" credit, but not any other variation with "Lighting" in it, which is clearly problematic. On one hand, it indicates that there is indeed some validity in these "Lighting" credits, but unlike is done for many other crew credits, it doesn't go on to list some additional variations. It is, however, true that "Lighting Director" is, in certain cases, the U.K. translation of the American term "Director of Photography". In certain cases where I was absolutely sure that the guy credited as "Lighting Director" was indeed the d.o.p., I have indeed given that guy a "Cinematographer' credit. But if it's just "Lighting" and nothing more, I'd leave it out.

Quote:
What if both Film Editor and Video Tape Editor are credited?

Difficult... In my experience, these are British shows in which the interiors are shot in the studio, on videotape, and there's also a little bit of location footage, shot on film. And then the footage shot on tape is edited by one guy, and the footage shot on film is edited by another guy. If we've decided that "Videotape Editor" is valid, then I wouldn't suddenly declare it invalid when an additional bit of location footage shot on film is edited by another guy - after all, the bulk of that episode is still edited by that same "Videotape Editor". Off-topic: these UK shows with footage on tape from the studio and footage on film for some exterior scenes often also have separate sound guys for recording the sound in the studio and recording the location sound (sometimes even referred to as film sound).


Thanks T!M for this extensive explanation. I can say that I agree with you 100%.
Cor
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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So do I.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
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Hope nobody minds me asking here but there are a couple i came across recently that I'm not to sure about

Post Production Sound only other sound credit is Sound Supervisor
and
Video Effects Designer credited just before the Visual Effects Designer's
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
Post Production Sound only other sound credit is Sound Supervisor

Whenever I've stumbled upon this, I've done some research on the person credited for "Post Production Sound". I've found that in many cases, these people are credited as "Re-Recording Mixer" throughout their career, often even many times within my own database. Whenever that's the case, then I'm convinced that they should be listed as such for this credit, too.

Quote:
and Video Effects Designer credited just before the Visual Effects Designer's

That I've never entered - I'd just stick with the actual Visual Effects Designer and/or Supervisor here. I have indeed also encountered a number of films with credits for "video" and "computer" effects and the like, and someone working in the industry explained to me that these credits tend to refer to images shown on computer monitors and TV screens shown in the film. Example of someone working in this field: Steve Grumette. Since it's such a specialistic sub-field, I would not award this an joint "visual effects" credit along with the film's actual visual effects supervisor.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
Post Production Sound only other sound credit is Sound Supervisor

Whenever I've stumbled upon this, I've done some research on the person credited for "Post Production Sound". I've found that in many cases, these people are credited as "Re-Recording Mixer" throughout their career, often even many times within my own database. Whenever that's the case, then I'm convinced that they should be listed as such for this credit, too.

I was going to put this person as Re-Recording Mixer but most of his credits are for Sound Supervisor so in the end i just left it out
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