Music by gets a composer credit, if it's the original score.

Harburg & Arlen won an Oscar for Best Original Song (Over the Rainbow).

Stothart won an Oscar for Original Score.

Locally the first two have a Songwriter credit and Stothart gets the Composer credit.  On-line is a mixed bag.

Quoting tweeter:

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Harburg & Arlen won an Oscar for Best Original Song (Over the Rainbow).

Stothart won an Oscar for Original Score.

Locally the first two have a Songwriter credit and Stothart gets the Composer credit.  On-line is a mixed bag.

Not relevant, we deal with credits, not Awards, Musical Adaptation is not an Original Score.

I can see some room for question relating to Arlen, does his Music by apply to the songs, maybe. But our concern is the Music By credit which without further information is Composer.Personally, I think the Songs and Music are intertwined in this film that Arlen probably did both, and would credit him as Composer, while Harburg picks up Song Writer.

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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Not relevant, we deal with credits, not Awards, Musical Adaptation is not an Original Score.

I can see some room for question relating to Arlen, does his Music by apply to the songs, maybe. But our concern is the Music By credit which without further information is Composer.Personally, I think the Songs and Music are intertwined in this film that Arlen probably did both, and would credit him as Composer, while Harburg picks up Song Writer.

The fact Arlen won an Oscar for Best Original Song and not Composer (won by Stothart) provides evidence that Arlen should not be credited as Composer.

Yes, the Music by credit for Arlen could be a Composer credit except that based on a little research (and awards are as easy as this gets) we know

1) he didn't Compose the score
2) he did write at least one song

And i haven't proposed a thing, merely pointed out that there is easy to find research explaining what the on screen credits actually mean.

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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BUT we deal with credits. And the credit doesn't match our criteria.

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Actually, for the song writer credit, it does.  The notes for Song writer, where there are no 'Credited As' entries, is "Original Songs, written specifically for the film."  Since Arlen won an Oscar for Best Original Song, and not Original Score, he fits the criteria for the Song Writer credit.

In addition, based on the notes section, Stothart matches the criteria for Composer.  The problem is, he doesn't match the required credit...and that is unfortunate because this is the person we are after.

The question for Ken is this...do we want to stick to the 'Credited As', and leave out important people, or can we make it an either/or situation...meaning can it match either the credited as or the notes?

So basically, we don't care what job people actually did? That seems counter-intuitive and contrary to data utility.

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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So basically, we don't care what job people actually did? That seems counter-intuitive and contrary to data utility.

No, Ace, it's called the RULES. I know that's foreign, but it is.

Martian:

I agree but the type of credits to which you refer are far more clear and definitive in that regard usually. That's why this one is a one off. We have no provision in the Rules for Musical Adaptation, Oscar is meaningless unless we want to allow the EXCEPTION. We are left with a Lyrics By (Clearly Song Writer) AND the usual Music By and the way that is formatted On Screen could be yaken both ways. The point remains we deal with the credits, we have no provision for outside information, unless we want to make this a one off exception based on its own merits and what IS known about the background. Why an EXCEPTION, because we are dealing with it on its merits and it does not necessarily present any sort of precedent.

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Quoting TheMadMartian:

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Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

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Martian:

I agree but the type of credits to which you refer are far more clear and definitive in that regard usually. That's why this one is a one off.

The credits I am refering to are exactly like this one, so I am not sure how you are coming to this conclusion.  I know I wrote it as 'Music & Lyrics' but I have seen, more than a few, "Music by" and "Lyrics by", credits that have been entered as 'Song Writer' because they were for a particular song in a musical.

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We have no provision in the Rules for Musical Adaptation, Oscar is meaningless unless we want to allow the EXCEPTION.

This I know, and addressed in my earlier post.  This is something that Ken will have to decide.

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We are left with a Lyrics By (Clearly Song Writer) AND the usual Music By and the way that is formatted On Screen could be yaken both ways. The point remains we deal with the credits, we have no provision for outside information, unless we want to make this a one off exception based on its own merits and what IS known about the background. Why an EXCEPTION, because we are dealing with it on its merits and it does not necessarily present any sort of precedent.

Because it can be taken both ways, assuming we want 'correct data', we need to consult outside sources.  While the rules don't say we can, they also don't say we can't.

That, my friend, is, as I have noted before is bogus argument. If i follow your logic to it's ultimate conclusion, we can list anything and everything , or nearly so, in Crew data and Contribute it because after all  the Rules do not prohibit, caterers, Accountants, Gaffers, Grips and so forth. Stop worrying about the Rules don't say we can't and just deal with they say.

The law doesn't explicitly deny the ability to rob X person, it says don't rob.

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