Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Technical Support Page: 1  Previous   Next
Understanding issues with DVD region coding and DVDPro
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
First a little technical background.  All DVDs must have at least one of the region code bits set in the byte.  Otherwise it won't play anywhere.  There is no such thing as region 0 with a DVD.  For and "all region" DVD, the bits for regions 1 thru 6 must be set.

The issue.  It seems that many, many, many contributors are not setting any regions for DVDs that are all region.  It came to light when I was updating a report for displaying region codes.  I had set it so that when it the region code was zero, it would display a 1-6 region code image.  Then it hit an entry whereby the 6 region codes were set, which is 100% correct.  That caused my report to display each of the 6 region codes (smaller versions so that all are viewable).

That got me to thinking.  Why is DVDP allowing DVDs to have no region code when that is technically incorrect?  The person that submitted a DVD that I have correctly, set all 6 region bits.

Should't DVDP pop up a warning that no region locations were set and to indicate that all locations are set for DVDs that are so-called region free?

DVDP should display ALL for DVDs that have all 6 region locations set, not MULTI.

In the meantime, I'm off to update my report to handle this inconsistancy.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Actually, this is not a case of many, many, many contributors making a mistake. Rather, most users are following the Contribution Rules.
Whether the rules makes sense is a matter of taste. At least the benefit of not setting any bits is that the software display this as "0", which is what you will find on most of the DVD boxes for "all region" discs. The indication "M" for multi is reserved (in the software) for any subset of regions 1-6, other than single regions.
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Well said, Staid.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
on steroids
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 5,734
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
First a little technical background.  All DVDs must have at least one of the region code bits set in the byte.  Otherwise it won't play anywhere.  There is no such thing as region 0 with a DVD.  For and "all region" DVD, the bits for regions 1 thru 6 must be set.

The issue.  It seems that many, many, many contributors are not setting any regions for DVDs that are all region.  It came to light when I was updating a report for displaying region codes.  I had set it so that when it the region code was zero, it would display a 1-6 region code image.  Then it hit an entry whereby the 6 region codes were set, which is 100% correct.  That caused my report to display each of the 6 region codes (smaller versions so that all are viewable).

That got me to thinking.  Why is DVDP allowing DVDs to have no region code when that is technically incorrect?  The person that submitted a DVD that I have correctly, set all 6 region bits.

Should't DVDP pop up a warning that no region locations were set and to indicate that all locations are set for DVDs that are so-called region free?

According to Wikipedia it's not true that at least one flag has to be set: "discs that bear the region 0 symbol either have no flag set or have region 1–6 flags set".
Quote:
DVDP should display ALL for DVDs that have all 6 region locations set, not MULTI.

I agree. If the DVD is encoded for regions 1 to 6, we have to set "all" per the rules. Which displays as M and at first glance can't be distinguished from a region code free ("0") DVD unless you hover the mouse pointer over the symbol.
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting bbbbb:
Quote:
According to Wikipedia it's not true that at least one flag has to be set: "discs that bear the region 0 symbol either have no flag set or have region 1–6 flags set".


Wikipedia is not the be all to end all.

I quote DVD Demystified - Second Edition:
Quote:
Region 0 is a common but misleading term. There is no region 0.  Region-free players and all-region discs exist, but region 0 players and region 0 discs are non-existant. A player modified to work in all regions may have all of the bits in the region mask set, which means that it is technically a region 65535 or region FFFF player.


There are two bytes set aside for region coding, of which only one byte was ever used.

I've personally never seen a region 0 disc.  Any company who labels said disc like that is mistaken.  The best thing to do is label it ALL or do not put on a region symbol.

Quote:
I agree. If the DVD is encoded for regions 1 to 6, we have to set "all" per the rules. Which displays as M and at first glance can't be distinguished from a region code free ("0") DVD unless you hover the mouse pointer over the symbol.


People may have misread the spec.  The matching of the region code on the disc and the player is done via a mask.  Inverse logic is used for the bits on the disc, in that when a region is set for allowable playback, the bit is cleared.  So, when authoring software has all of the bits set, they are actually cleared on the DVD, hence the "zero."  But, here is the part that seems to be forgotten, if you do not set the region as being playable, the bit for that region will be set, which the player will interpret as meaning it is not allowed to play the disc.  So, if you do not set any region flags, the disc will not be playable anywhere.  A region flag MUST be set for the DVD to be playable somewhere.  Of course, this is not withstanding software that copies a disc, removing the encryption, which removes the region coding, or players that are modified to not bother checking the region code under any circumstance.  I'm talking about the purpose for which the region codes were intended.

Region coding only applies to CSS-encrypted DVD-Video discs.  No encryption means the player does not check for region coding.

Since bit 7 is reserved and never set and since bit 8 does not pertain to consumer discs, i.e., only for plane, boats and hotels, only bits 1 through 6 (not 1 to 6, as "to" is not inclusive) are of interest to consumers.

The professional DVD authoring software that I use is DVD Maestro.  You have to set the flags for the regions in which you want the disc to be playable, and yes, because it is a professional authoring package, you can deal with all 8 flags.  Since I do not create DVDs that will be encrypted, the setting of the flags is neither here nor there.  I just them them anyway.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,195
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
DVDP should display ALL for DVDs that have all 6 region locations set, not MULTI.


Discs encoded for regions 1-6 should never be set according to the contribution rules. It's a matter of convenience, nothing else. If you want to adhere to some other, technical standard, that's your private business. Or you could make a feature request, but I personally don't see the benefit of setting 6 regions instead of none.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
Unix works!
Registered: July 22, 2007
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Kinoniki:
Quote:
Or you could make a feature request, but I personally don't see the benefit of setting 6 regions instead of none.


An enhancement request it is.
Mr Video Productions
If it isn't Unix, it isn't an OS :-)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
This is not the way to fly, mr. v. If you want technical as someone mentioned, keep it locally. the purpose for the program and for the rules is to make it data entry as easy to do and determine as possible for ALL users. We have many users who are not technophobes. So, if you want to get truly rechnical with your data. do it locaklly for your own data and don't try and, even meaning well ( which i know you are), poring gasoline on the fire and start with a bunch of complications that will only serve to confuse many user, thus reducing Contributions.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
on steroids
Registered: March 14, 2007
Posts: 5,734
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Kinoniki:
Quote:
Discs encoded for regions 1-6 should never be set according to the contribution rules.

Quite the opposite: according to the contribution rules DVDs encoded for Regions 1-6 must be listed as "All" (and not as "None").
Quote:
I personally don't see the benefit of setting 6 regions instead of none.

Well, it would be correct data.
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,195
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Trying to purposly misinterpret the rules is not going to get you anywhere.
First registered: February 15, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Kinoniki:
Quote:
Trying to purposly misinterpret the rules is not going to get you anywhere.

Agree with, Kino. We see far too much of that.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Technical Support Page: 1  Previous   Next