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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Volume 1 + Box |
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| Registered: March 31, 2008 |  Posts: 21 |
| | Posted: | | | | This used to happen with TV series, now you generally only see it happening with Anime. There seems to be no set way to tackle these things, so I thought I would input what I think is best and get your feedback.
The following proposal is for listing Artboxes which are released with a single volume of a series. Specifically in circumstances where the DVD shares the same UPC as one that is sold separately.
The Listing
Going through previous discussions on this topic; since the Artbox and DVD have different UPC's they should have two separate profiles, with the DVD set as a child. However only the volumes that were originally sold with the box should be set as children (if the series is 6 volumes, but only one is included with the box, then only that volume should be listed as a child, not the other 5). Adding further volumes is something the individual user can do if they own them.
The box and DVD should not be part of the same profile, as is sometimes happening.
Title
This is somewhat all over the place. I think the most reasonable option is to simply use the series name alone as the title for the artbox. Though if the artbox is part of a limited edition, designate this in the normal fashion. eg.
USE: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
NOT: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: Vol. 1 (w/Box) [or variations of this]
and
USE: .hack//Legend of the Twilight: Limited Edition
NOT: .hack//Legend of the Twilight - Vol. 1: A New World: Limited Edition [or variations]
I recognize that this will probably need some work. There are some examples like Eureka Seven that have many limited editions, two of which contain series artboxes. I think in such cases individual volumes that have limited editions should be designated in the normal fashion, however for the case where there are volumes with artboxes they should receive the same title (ie. not have a volume number attached), the difference between them indicated in the overview not the title.
EDIT: A couple more thoughts on title, perhaps instead of having just the name, Collector's Artbox can be added to the edition field (and not bother at all with limited edition or whatnot that a publisher calls the package - an artbox is an artbox no matter the name you put on it). This would differentiate the box from a Complete Collection/Season Collection or anything else that may be released later.
This would mean that "Collector's Artbox" be used in ALL cases that involve a single volume release and an artbox, instead of whatever fancy name someone tries to stick on it.
Features
This is something I see all the time. Features that are part of the disc are listed in the artbox profile, I do not think this should be done. If the artbox contains extras (eg t-shirt, cd etc.) they should be listed with the artbox. However all references to commentaries, angles, trailers etc should be part of the child profile it relates to.
Overview
This is where all information as to box contents, ie what volumes were sold as part of it should be placed in an itemized fashion, this has official president if you read the rules http://www.invelos.com/dvdpro/contributions/Rules.aspx?display=boxsets. And I think it is important to only list these here rather than attempting to mangle the title.
And the rest
As per rules disc ID's, Easter eggs, Cast/Crew etc should not be a part of this profile, they are part of the child profiles.
Disagree with any of this? Got something to add? Your welcome to comment and abuse. | | | | Last edited: by partiallylit |
| | Registered: May 9, 2008 |  Posts: 467 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting partiallylit: Quote:
This used to happen with TV series, now you generally only see it happening with Anime. There seems to be no set way to tackle these things, so I thought I would input what I think is best and get your feedback. It has it's just hidden in a number of threads. Quote:
Going through previous discussions on this topic; since the Artbox and DVD have different UPC's they should have two separate profiles, with the DVD set as a child. However only the volumes that were originally sold with the box should be set as children (if the series is 6 volumes, but only one is included with the box, then only that volume should be listed as a child, not the other 5). Adding further volumes is something the individual user can do if they own them. Correct only the volume shipped with the box set should be a child. Quote:
The box and DVD should not be part of the same profile, as is sometimes happening.
If you mean the included volume info should not be in parent, this is allowed under TV series rules. The info is allowed in the parent profile. Quote:
Title
This is somewhat all over the place. I think the most reasonable option is to simply use the series name alone as the title for the artbox. Though if the artbox is part of a limited edition, designate this in the normal fashion. eg.
This is covered in rules. Title needs to be as it appears. Quote:
Features
This is something I see all the time. Features that are part of the disc are listed in the artbox profile, I do not think this should be done. If the artbox contains extras (eg t-shirt, cd etc.) they should be listed with the artbox. However all references to commentaries, angles, trailers etc should be part of the child profile it relates to. See TV series rules. This is allowed in the parent profile Quote:
Overview
This is where all information as to box contents, ie what volumes were sold as part of it should be placed in an itemized fashion, this has official president if you read the rules http://www.invelos.com/dvdpro/contributions/Rules.aspx?display=boxsets. And I think it is important to only list these here rather than attempting to mangle the title. The overview should be what is listed on the box or data sheet that is included with the box. If no overview is present this is covered in the rules also. Quote:
And the rest
Audio/Video should be listed as it is required. Cast/Crew can be put in at your discretion. However as per rules disc ID's, Easter eggs etc should not be a part of this profile.
See TV Series rules. These are allowed in the parent profile. |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 |  Posts: 25 |
| | Posted: | | | | Like tkinnen said, all infos belong in the parent profile. Child profiles are only an option for TV Series and some people enter the Artbox profile to their collection and leave the child outside. The best is to submit all infos to both profiles.
The big problem is the title rule. The "search by title" function will be messed up if we start to remove all volume indicators from Limited Editions. Imho the volume indicators should be left intact. |
| | Registered: March 31, 2008 | | Posts: 21 |
| | Posted: | | | | tkinnen, I know this issue has been previously discussed. However I could find nothing dedicated to the subject or coming to any real conclusion. Hence I was hoping to build something fairly detailed on what to do in this situation, that can hopefully be stickied. Since it seems a lot of people have a problem with these submissions, at least if the actual submissions are anything to go by. Just about every one of them is different.
And per the rules Audio/video is required. However the rules specifically state that disc ID's and Easter Eggs are NOT to be included in the parent profile. Hence why I am saying that Features shouldn't be either, because they are something specific to a particular child profile - not all the DVDs in a box are going to have the same features, just like they won't all have easter eggs or the same disc ID.
Disc ID's, Easter Eggs and the like on a collection box should only be used if it is a complete season or series, and the discs are not sold separately. I.e a Clamshell with all the discs in a single case, in all other cases the rules specify that this information should only be part of the individual disc. So in the case of a Volume 1 + box this information should NEVER be included, as it should always have the child profile.
My issue is mainly with the Title. As you specify this should be as it appears. However that is not helpful when there is no official title for the things.
My main beef is with people who use "vol 1 w/box". You do not call a complete collection "Ghost in the shell: Volumes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 (w/Box)" so why should it be any different in this case, it is simply messy. It is a descriptive and not a Title, hence why I said that only the title of the show should be used (perhaps with "Series Artbox" in the Edition field). Since this is what you see on the side of the box. Information as to what volume was included with it should be in two places; firstly described in the overview, and secondly with that volume listed as a child profile. | | | | Last edited: by partiallylit |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 25 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, I don't simply buy an Artbox with extra DVD. I buy Anime Volume X and choose between the regular and limited Edition. In both cases you have a single volume release. The only difference are case type and SRP and with the limited edition you have the option the create a boxset. I use this option, but I have seen others who don't.
Now the title problem. Strictly per rules all volume indicators have to be deleted from the limited editions and someting like (w/Box) in the title field is wrong in any case. But would this be useful?
A little example from my collection. I have created the german profiles for Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny:
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 1: Limited Edition
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 1
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 2
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 3
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 4
Now these DVDs don't have a volume number on cover. Strictly speaking I have violated the rules and the profiles should be corrected to:
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny: Limited Edition
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny
The second version is correct per rules, but for search by title not a big help. The same applies to Collectors Boxes. If I search for Kanon I want to find Kanon: Vol. 2 and Kanon Vol. 2: Limited Edition. If someone wishes to remove this indicators he's right per rules but imho it doesn't help to improve the database ad I would never vote yes to such a contribution. |
| | Registered: March 31, 2008 | | Posts: 21 |
| | Posted: | | | | As a side note I corrected the "and the rest" part of my first post. Rereading the rules Cast/Crew are in fact NOT to be included in a parent profile. Hmm many profiles have this wrong, I have contributed to it  Now on with the post. Strictly speaking, yes if the cover of the DVD does not say Volume 1 then that is violating the rules. However as you state this is completely useless and there would then be no way to differentiate, which is useless to us users. I have no problem with using Volume numbers for normal discs, so given your example I would do it as: Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny: Limited Edition Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 1 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 2 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 3 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 4 or Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny: Collector's Artbox Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 1 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 2 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 3 Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny Vol. 4 In both case Vol.1 should be listed as the child of the profile at the top. In the overview of the top profile it can be stated that it was part of a limited edition that included yadda yadda and yadda. What I am trying to propose is not that the naming for everything should change. Only the naming for editions that include series Artboxes. Because the Artbox is something that relates to the entire series, not just the volume it is sold with. For the most part this should be perfectly fine for the vast majority of series. For with the vast majority of series, you are simply buying an Artbox with an extra DVD. It may call itself a limited edition, however the DVD included IS the same one you buy separately, with the same UPC. These are the circumstances I say the above should apply. (In fact I put a caveat on my first post now, to this effect) Your example of Kanon though does bring up some issues, and there are others Haruhi Suzimiya, R.O.D etc. What is included with the Artbox IS NOT the same as what you can buy separately. In such cases they should be listed in full Volume order. | | | | Last edited: by partiallylit |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | The box needs something along the lines of volume + 1 to distinguish it from an actual whole-series set. |
| | Registered: March 31, 2008 | | Posts: 21 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah thats why I was thinking of perhaps using "Collector's Artbox" " Collector's Box" or something similar in the Edition field. To distinguish it from a separately sold Complete collection.
Though what are people thinking about all of this, wasting my time here? Onto something useful? | | | | Last edited: by partiallylit |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 25 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting partiallylit: Quote:
Yeah thats why I was thinking of perhaps using "Collector's Artbox" " Collector's Box" or something similar in the Edition field. To distinguish it from a separately sold Complete collection.
Though what are people thinking about all of this, wasting my time here? Onto something useful? But you don't have to distinguish from a possible Complete Collection but from the regular edition. I want to see how many possible different versions from Anime Volume X I can buy. A title like Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny: Collector's Box says nothing. Is this a single volume release and which volume do I have to buy to get the Box? The title has little to no info. And you don't have to add the regular edition as child profile to the box. Child profiles for TV Series are optional. Ikki Tousen: Dragon Destiny: Vol. 1: Limited Edition without boxset content and all info is absolutely correct per rules (I know not the title  ). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting partiallylit: Quote:
As a side note I corrected the "and the rest" part of my first post. Rereading the rules Cast/Crew are in fact NOT to be included in a parent profile. Hmm many profiles have this wrong, I have contributed to it The problem with this line of thinking is that this is not a box set. Per the rules, "The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film." The Box Set rules do not apply to these sets because, unless I am missing something, these are TV series sets. As such, they must follow the TV series rules. Those rules dictate that "cast and crew are to be entered into the parent profile using appropriate episode dividers." | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 9, 2008 | | Posts: 467 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
The Box Set rules do not apply to these sets because, unless I am missing something, these are TV series sets. As such, they must follow the TV series rules. Yes, The majority are TV Series so would fall under the TV Series rules. The few exceptions are for Original Animated Video (OAV), also sometimes called Original Video Animation (OVA). These are direct to Video releases which are usually in an episode format like TV series. From what I have seen the majority of people treat these releases like TV series also since that is how they are structured and many are aired in the US as TV Episodes. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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