Like some users before me, I'm also done submitting online contributions.

No, this is not a tantrum where I stay away for 2 days, exiting bombastically through the front door only to sneak back in through the back door like nothing had happened. I just genuinely don't have the energy anymore to contribute to a community where I get personal attacks and belittling remarks, simply for having different views.

This is not because some of my contributions get declined or because I have a different view on certain rules. Things I agree upon and don't have a problem with are:
- The rules need to be maintained
- submission that get declined based on the rules or verification by users who also own the same disc
- Invelos has the last say in matters, whether I or other users agree or disagree
- DVD Profiler is an ongoing project and needs refinement, both in rules and software. We just do what we can with the current situation

Granted, I'll openly admit that for some rules, I disagree with Invelos (like not including encoded tracks because they don't show up in certain settings). However, I accept that their ruling is final and I will abide by that.

The thing that bothers me is not so much what is being said or done, but the way how it is said and done.

I hoped the forums would be a place where changes of rules or future development could be discussed in an open manner. Unfortunately, it seems that whenever I post a comment or thread where I genuinely want to discuss rules and software updates, and my views don't coincide with the views of a certain very vocal minority of users, they start preaching from their high thrones, using a very condescending tone in my regard. More often that not, this is done in PM because they know they avoid moderation in such way.

I'm sick of that and I don't want to keep using what precious little free time I have in endless debates where instead of looking for a common answer or at least trying to see the other person's perspective, users immediately take an very authorative, almost agressive tone, where it becomes more of a mudslinging contest than an intelligent discussion on the core of the issues or the problem at hand.

So, the things that made me want to stop contributing:
- Users voting against my submission without any grounds for such a vote in the rules
- Users voting against my submission simply because it doesn't fit their idealic view of the online database, without using the rules and even without having the discs themselves (which in my opinion is a clear violation of voting priviliges, something Invelos seems to want to ignore)
- Snide and smug remarks, especially by PM
- constant belittling of my intellect for the mere fact that I have a different opinion
- Use of certain offensive language in my regard

The issue that was the last straw is the Ultimate Matrix Collection Blu-ray release, but the whole Japanese romanization discussion already but a lot of water in the bucket as well. For the Matrix issue, one user even voted without using the rules to explain his vote and without himself having the discs to verify, yet such behavior is not condemned by Invelos it seems.

Still about the Matrix submission, Ken posted a ruling in the thread in a civilized manner and I posted I would abide by his ruling. I don't have a problem with that. What bothers me is that a certain user took the time to PM me to rub my nose in it saying: "So now that Ken has ruled the same way I see things, will you finally accept it now?". That is just inflammatory and uncalled for. I'm well aware of my place in this community and that when Ken or any member of Invelos rules, it is final. Such PM's are sent with an undertone of "See little man, you're wrong and I'm right. Better start listening to me now!" I won't go deeper in this isssue and didn't reply the PM ... it's just not worth it, but it was certainly uncalled for.

As such, I pull out from online submission and will instead use my time to adapt my local database, because at least that will serve a purpose. I will only stay on the site to vote on future submission (according to the rules, not to force my personal preference on others), but I myself am done submitting. It's not worth it putting time and effort into finding solution and helping build a community if all I get is belittling remarks by a small group who want the online database to be what they want, not what is best for the community.

I will also still submit my Japanese Romanization analysis for future rule updates, because I had promised to do so to some members. However, whatever happens with that analysis and suggestions afterwards, I will not involve myself in the discussion anymore. Said vocal minority will now doubt derail the discussion and belittle my views like they have done so far, so I won't dance to their music, even if the entire Japanese romanization rule set will turn out to be a big mess.

I just want to make it clear that I don't have a problem with Ken, Gerri or Invelos in general, even if our views differ on certain matters. I appreciate the fact that Invelos members have always answered me in a correct, professional and civilized manner. I also don't have a problem with the many users that have helped me or took the time to listen to my opinions in a respectful manner, again, even if we didn't agree on everything.

My decision is based on a small minority that bullies this forum and community into seeing things the way they see it, without even trying to listen to other people's ideas and taking on a demeaning stance from the get-go, as soon as a question is asked.

I hope things will change in the future but until then, I'm out.

Unfortunate to see a compatriot go
hope you stay there are only a few Belgium's left.

Hope you change your mind

Het ga je goed Taro

Also sorry to see another valuable member stop contributing & I agree fully with the comments you made.

All the best.

Quoting mdnitoil:

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Quoting Alien Redrum:

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Ug. Sorry to see you go. I, too, don't understand how someone who doesn't own the disc can vote on a submission. That has no logic at all.

As I'm sure you know, you simply add it to your wishlist and poof, instant voting rights.  It's a required tool in order to be a protector of the database.

  Yeah, I'm found that early on when I was confused on how people could look at could look at questionable submissions discussed ion the contribution forum. I just can't see myself voting on which list items because I have no idea on how I could possibly verify the info submitted.

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I'm not going to quote your personal stuff, because I think you oversimplify the problem.

I agree with that on some level, actually. Skip is but one part of the problem of the people leaving. [broken record] Moderation without retribution is another part of it [/broken record]. The last what? 3 people? Left because of this.

And do we really need to guess who sent the PMs to Taro? Is this even necessary? It's an ongoing, frustrating, issue.

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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I am always sorry to see anyone stop contributing... and of course this time is no different.

I will note that it is necessary to be able to vote on wishlist and ordered items. I personally only use it in 2 specific situations myself. Those being for obvious mistakes and stuff that breaks the rules. You do not need the disc in hand to do some voting. It is also necessary for voting on the pre-release information. I believe this is the reason we are able to vote on profiles in the wishlist and ordered tabs.

Yeah, I agree with that.  I'm not sure that I would actually lobby against the ability, its just sad to see it abused.  It won't shock me if one day that ability becomes curtailed because of said abuse.  That's the unfortunate part of all this.

I think the same goes for folks who make modifications to profiles in other regions that they don't own.  I find it ironic that some people have a problem with others modifying profiles they don't own, but will eagerly abuse the same loophole to criticize (vote) on profiles they don't own.

Quoting mdnitoil:

Quote:
Yeah, I agree with that.  I'm not sure that I would actually lobby against the ability, its just sad to see it abused.  It won't shock me if one day that ability becomes curtailed because of said abuse.  That's the unfortunate part of all this.

I don't see any way of stopping people from doing this.  If invelos blocks voting on 'Wish List' and 'Ordered' items, people who really want to vote will just add them to the owned list.  The only way to prevent this is to require that the discs be inserted into a computer, to verify the disc ID, but I don't see that happening.

Quote:
I think the same goes for folks who make modifications to profiles in other regions that they don't own.  I find it ironic that some people have a problem with others modifying profiles they don't own, but will eagerly abuse the same loophole to criticize (vote) on profiles they don't own.

I have to agree with you here.  If someone is vocal about users contributing to profiles they don't own, they have no business voting on profiles they don't own.

Forum and PM Blocks work great (although on the forum blocks it does make it hard to read some threads, especially if the person blocked posts in just about every thread    )

I have one PM block that will be reaching it's 2 year anniversary this month. I wonder if I should unblock the user and send him a card... NAH! 

It is too bad you will no longer contribute. Glad you're sticking around the forum though.