Hi there,

I searched a while in the forum and in the contribution rules but couldn't find much information on this topic. Perhaps (if some invelos staff could answer here) we could add the answer to the FAQ.

The Question is: What attributes would a cover-jpg have to meet in order to NOT being changed by invelos staff and be taken AS IS as a cover? My problem is I take much time in optimizing cover images before submitting/contributing profiles. And after I reload the profile from the database the cover scan has significantly less quality than the one I originally submitted. In another thread (which I cannot find at the moment) I read a few step by step instructions:

Quote:
I normally scan as an uncompressed .tiff at 600dpi, 48-bit color, best Scanning Quality, medium Unsharp Mask Filter and Descreening Filter set to Fine Prints (175 lpi). The descreening filter helps eliminate moire patterning on most covers that I scan. I then edit the scans in Adobe Photoshop CS2 to adjust levels if needed, cropping and alignment, and cleaning dust and scratches. I then save the final image on an external hard drive for backup purposes. Without closing the image I then resize incrementally by 500 pixels (to avoid artifacting) to the closest I can get to 500x700 and save for web reducing the quality until its size is closest to the allowed 200k. I save that image in the DVD Profiler Image folder with the UPC file name assigned for that cover. I very rarely have cover contributions declined now.

Well I followed those instructions thinking invelos staff would take the covers as they were but unfortunately that wasn't the case. So I'd like to ask what the official criterias for unchanged JPGs would be and if the given data in the quotation above is also complying with what invelos staff looks for, e.g.

resolution: 500x700
image size: < 200kb (is that within the windows explorer or where could I test the image size reliably?)
dpi: ??? (the quoted person above stated he'd use 600dpi which I did too in my scans but as I can see in the final image size of the newly downloaded scans and which I could confirm with Photoshop: The new scans only have 72 dpi.

That is enormously little for a hires scan! 

So if some invelos staff could confirm/tell the right specs and additionally add it to the contribution rules that would be really great. Especially the dpi problem is something critical.

Thanks beforehand
-Steve-

The amount of DPI depends on the size of your screen. On my screen a picture of 500x700 has approx. 90 DPI/PPI. You can use this calculator to see what your screen's DPI is.

Cougar,

If images don't meet the 500x700 pixels and 200,000 bytes limits they are downsized automagically by invelos.  Someday when storage gets even cheaper those limits might increase.

I scan @ 600 dpi (3000x4200) and manually reduce dimensions to 500x700 in stages and save with as little compression as possible.  I add that directly to the DVDp image folder so no further manipulation is done by the program.  I upload the contribution.

Then i locally replace the uploaded image with one ~1000x1400 and uncompressed and lock the image.  You can save locally at whatever size you want.

Then you have a local hires image.

Thanks for all the replies!

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
As for your 600 DPI, I scan at 800<shrugs> and i have specific software that helps me keep my hardware calibrated, and will read a cover and give me results that i can use to properly balance my colors. The 72 DPI for the images Online is not that unusual, don't forget the more dpi, the bigger the file and the more storage needed.
[...]
The Rules spell out SOME information but they are also not real specific, let's face facts image judgement is pretty subjective.
Skip

I use a device called Spyder2Pro to keep my monitors calibrated. So I think color shouldn't be much of an issue. Apart from that I learned from different sources that scans done on calibrated monitors could look different in Internet Explorer and Firefox Browsers from other people as those browsers have no color management. But I believe the reason for the changes in quality mostly come from invelos downscaling the dpi.


Quoting Dr. Killpatient:

Quote:
It's not 200k, it's 200,000 bytes which evaluates out to 195.3k.  If Windows File Browser reports 195k or 196k for the image size (vista will say both at the same time!), right-click on it and select Properties to view the byte count.

I suspected something like that. Perhaps mine were 198k and therefor resized?! I'll keep an eye on that issue next time I submit a scan.


Quoting tweeter:

Quote:
Cougar,
[...]
I scan @ 600 dpi (3000x4200) and manually reduce dimensions to 500x700 in stages and save with as little compression as possible.  I add that directly to the DVDp image folder so no further manipulation is done by the program.  I upload the contribution.
[...]

up until this point my workflow looks the same as yours. But as I stated further above I asume the image size was still too large...


Quoting pauls42:

Quote:
Quoting cougar2010:

Quote:


And after I reload the profile from the database the cover scan has significantly less quality than the one I originally submitted.

That's your mistake right there. After you submit the cover scans just lock your cover scans locally and then you won't lose them.

I don't like to do that because I want to see what people get out of my scans. And what they get is obviously of less quality than the one I produced. That's what makes me sad



@all:

- As for the 72dpi: Is this the maximum they allow? The contribution rules say "If you scan images for your personal database at a quality that are higher than 100 DPI, you may still submit them. If accepted, they will automatically be downsized for inclusion in the main database". That sounds to me as if 100dpi should be the maximum instead of 72dpi. 

- How many dpi do your submitted scans have?


-Steve-

Quoting cougar2010:

Quote:
- How many dpi do your submitted scans have?


-Steve-

I scan all of my covers as uncompressed tifs at 600dpi. After post-processing in Photoshop I save the original file. Without closing the file I then reduce the image size by increments until it is the closest I can get to 500x700 still at 600dpi. I then "save for web" and reduce the quality until it's the closest I can get to 195k and save it directly into the Profiler images folder with the UPC file name. I then submit to Invelos. Invelos then reduces the dpi to screen resolution of 72dpi.

@8ballMax:
I think it was your workflow I followed but couldn't remember your name nor find your thread    And like you describe: uploading with 600dpi and having it downscaled from invelos to 72dpi.


Quoting Agrare:

Quote:

My latest scan I made at 300 dpi, I then do any photoshopping to the image (clean up, color adjust, cropping) and then resize to 500x700 (or as close to as I can that falls under, keeping aspect ratio of course) and reduce the dpi to 100. I then save the image, reducing quality until it is as close to the 200,000 byte limit as I can get (but not over)

This scan was accepted, and when the profile was released and I updated it, I got 'No Changes Detected' when I previewed the changes, telling me the image was kept exactly as I submitted it.
[...]
-Agrare

Thanks very much for that detailed description of a non-changed submission! Very helpful indeed! I'll definetely try that.

-Steve-

Quoting Agrare:

Quote:
8ballMax, your way, the image quality is going to get reduced when they drop the dpi from 600 to 72 as well as the file size. So now it will be well below the 200,000 byte limit. If you drop the dpi in Photoshop, this will result in a smaller file size for the same quality settings as the 600 dpi image. Then save it using quality settings that keeps it as close to, but still under the max file size. If you submit this image to the online, then when it gets released (if accepted) it should be the same as what you originally submitted, and of higher quality then your current method. You can of course keep/use the 600 dpi version locally.

-Agrare

I was mistaken on the step when saving for web. Saving for Web, which converts the tif to jpeg, actually reduces the dpi from 600 to 72 not Invelos...so there is no further compression upon submission to Invelos.

Quoting cougar2010:

Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:

Quote:

I was mistaken on the step when saving for web. Saving for Web, which converts the tif to jpeg, actually reduces the dpi from 600 to 72 not Invelos...so there is no further compression upon submission to Invelos.

Can you choose it to be 72? If so why not take 100?

-Steve-

No, you cannot choose anything in ImageReady.

In ImageReady (Photoshop CS2), the resolution of images is always 72 dpi, to optimize the images for online media. I can decrease the resolution to 100 without changing pixel dimensions though if I "save as" a jpeg (not using ImageReady). I would have to first resize the original tif to 500x700 +/- then resize again with Resample Image unchecked and change the resolution from 600 to 100 dpi without changing pixel dimensions. The problem with not using ImageReady to optimize the image for contribution though is that I can't be as precise as to the actual size in KBs. I like to get the images as close to 195.3K as possible without going over the limit. Changing the dpi to 100 does decrease the file size dramatically but it would still be over the Invelos size limit and get compressed further degrading image quality. I can adjust the quality when saving as jpeg but it's pretty low...about 163-172k.