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BUG - Capitalization of Actor/Crewperson Names using mixed case
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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EDIT: Giga Wizard pointed out that my original message was hard to read.  It's fixed now.

The way local databases and the online database deal with mixed case in actor or crewperson names is inconsistent.

For example, NiCole Robinson is one of the recurring cast members of The West Wing.  She's quoted in her *cough* IMDb *cough* Biography as saying that her mother decided to spell NiCole with a capital C.  So, that's the way she SHOULD be credited, and most often is.

The problem is that if I have her in my local database as Nicole -- and download a profile where her name is spelled "NiCole -- my local database looks to the local actor file and shows "Nicole" after the download.

Going the other way, if I want to make another correction to the online profile (maybe I discovered that a rolename was misspelled) and I contribute the cast including my Nicole spelling -- and that profile is accepted, it seems that the online spelling for that profile is changed from NiCole to Nicole -- when I neither meant to change the online profile or even knew I was doing it.

This often happens.  Many people have voted for/against contributions with comments that the submitter is trying to change capitalization of names when he really isn't.  He's just caught in the capitalization trap that might be a bug.

This "bug" (at least I think it's a bug) has been observed and commented upon for some time now, but I think to avoid ping-ponging of contributions, it should be fixed or at least made consistent between local and online databases.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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 Last edited: by kdh1949
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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There is no "bug", as this can (and should!) be handled using the "credited as" feature. As of yet, nobody has been able to come up with one single example of two different people who have the exact same name but with a difference in capitalization. As long as that doesn't happen, there's no need to allow both variants to co-exist in the database: you just determine which variant is the most-credited form, use that as the "name", and use "credited as" for any variations.

In this case, you would use NiCole Robinson as the name (you indicate that's what she's mostly credited as), and if you encounter a profile in which she credited as Nicole, you'd enter her as "NiCole Robinson, credited as Nicole Robinson". So there is absolutely no need for Invelos to allow us to have both name variants in the database - the system is "forcing" you to make proper use of the "credited as" feature, though.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
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It' clear I'm not explaining my concerns well in this.  I'm not asking to have both variants in the database.  And I don't have a problem using "credited as" for any profile in my local database where the on screen credit for NiCole is Nicole.  I understand how that works and that's how I use it.

My concern is that it seems that if the online database currently reflects NiCole and I contribute an amended profile with Nicole.  It looks to me like if my contribution is corrected it will result in the online profile having the value Nicole in the profile.  The system doesn't "force" me to use "credited as" -- all it does is show me that my contribution shows "Nicole" when the existing profile shows "NiCole."  If I don't know my value is incorrect (or even notice that i'm making a change -- which is possible with a TV credit list of several hundred values) it doesn't look like anything will stop me from changing the online database with incorrect data.

Use of the "credited as" feature only works if I know that my local name is incorrect and the online one is correct.  As others have pointed out repeatedly, the CLT leaves a lot to be desired in helping someone determine the common name.

The other part of the equation is that when I download a profile with NiCole, it doesn't overwrite my local value of NiCole.  It looks to me that

      If it is LOCAL to ONLINE  the Value Changes,  but
      If it is ONLINE to LOCAL  the Value Does Not Change

We have to make a manual change to our local actor database to go from Nicole to NiCole or vice versa, but all it seems to take to do this online is have a profile accepted and released.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
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 Last edited: by kdh1949
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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I think I know what Ken's on about and I'm sure I've had this too.
It's like the contribution system is able to tell the difference between Nicole and NiCole but the actual cast database doesn't.
So if you have Nicole in your database and you download a profile which is supposed to update it to NiCole the update never happens.
Is that right?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
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That's it, North.  So my profile is never uploaded to NiCole.

But if I should make some other change to my local profile and upload it, I believe my Nicole WOULD overwrite the correct NiCole online.  I think the contribution system thinks I MEAN to change the name from NiCole to Nicole -- and if the reviewers approve it, it takes and I have changed the value of the online profile where I didn't mean to.

BTW:  Giga Wizard PMd me to tell me that my original message was really hard to read.  I messed up changing the color of the letter C by not showing font color="red' (notice I have used a single quote after red instead of a double quote).  That meant that my font color change didn't take place the way I intended.  I've edited the original message if anyone wants to see what I THOUGHT I'd said.    
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
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Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
If it is LOCAL to ONLINE the Value Changes

It has to: we have to be able to correct a faulty entry in an online profile.

Quote:
but if it is ONLINE to LOCAL the Value Does Not Change

I understand how you view this as something negative, but I am actually very happy about this behaviour. All names in my local database are well-researched, and I want to keep them that way. When I buy a new DVD, enter it by UPC and download the profile, I do not want the software to overwrite any existing cast or crew names with different capitalisation, because I simply wouldn't notice anything had changed. This way, your local data is "protected" against such unwanted changes. Once you have a name in your database, it stays that way.

Note that we don't have this "protection" for the studios field: if you have a (correct) entry for "TriStar Pictures", and you download a profile that has "Tristar Pictures" (lowercase "s"), then your old value of "TriStar Pictures" will be overwritten by the incorrect value of "Tristar Pictures". Since there are only three studio fields, you usually notice this immediately, but I certainly don't want DVD Profiler making changes (without asking) to actor names of which I have set the correct capitalization a long time ago if I update or download a new profile.

I do understand that this results in more work if you DO want to have that new data after an update, but surely you do see the merit in protecting your local data from not-necessarily-wanted changes, which would not only happen when you accept an update, but also when you simply add a new profile to your database which contains an incorrectly capitalized actor name of which the correctly capitalized version is already in your database.

So...

Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
We have to make a manual change to our local actor database to go from Nicole to NiCole or vice versa, but all it seems to take to do this online is have a profile accepted and released.

That's indeed about it.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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This may have been deliberate to protect the local database, but now you have the problem that people can now accidentally damage the online database!
For example, you have a profile in which an actor's name is incorrectly capitalised. Someone updates the profile and includes a fix. You download the update but don't notice the name change in the preview so it doesn't get changed. You then change something else on the profile yourself and upload it - with the old capitalisation, and if it's accepted the previous fix is overwritten!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
This may have been deliberate to protect the local database, but now you have the problem that people can now accidentally damage the online database!
For example, you have a profile in which an actor's name is incorrectly capitalised. Someone updates the profile and includes a fix. You download the update but don't notice the name change in the preview so it doesn't get changed. You then change something else on the profile yourself and upload it - with the old capitalisation, and if it's accepted the previous fix is overwritten!

Yes, I can see how that could happen, and it is a bit unfortunate. It all comes down to that you just have to take note of the comparison screen when you're contributing: changes like this will be highlighted, so you're supposed to catch these yourselves. Of course, if something like this slips through, one of the voters could also notice it (for instance: the person who corrected that entry in the first place), and point it out to you. Again: it's not perfect, but I don't really see an "easy fix" for it.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Yes, I can see how that could happen, and it is a bit unfortunate. It all comes down to that you just have to take note of the comparison screen when you're contributing: changes like this will be highlighted, so you're supposed to catch these yourselves. Of course, if something like this slips through, one of the voters could also notice it (for instance: the person who corrected that entry in the first place), and point it out to you. Again: it's not perfect, but I don't really see an "easy fix" for it.

I don't see an easy fix for it, either.  That's why I started this thread.  The main reason I saw this as an issue needing a resolution is after seeing numerous votes from people about contributors changing the capitalization.  I don't think everyone is aware of why this is happening.

The way it works now is much like the dog chasing his tail.  Especially for TV profiles with a large cast list to which people make frequent updates.  It's easy to overlook a difference if there's only one occurence of this phenomenon (NiCole isn't a good example of this since she's in nearly every episode of WW) and REALLY especially when you're working with a parent profile of a DVD with a full season of 21+ episodes.  One name change is easy to miss.

Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
This may have been deliberate to protect the local database, but now you have the problem that people can now accidentally damage the online database!

Precisely my concern.  While there's protection on the local end, none exists on the online end.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
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 Last edited: by kdh1949
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