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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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AB Svensk Filmindustri or Svensk Filmindustri? |
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Registered: May 2, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 490 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote: Quoting Kulju:
Quote: Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
To me, nothing can convince me that "SVT" is a correct entry in the DB.
Maybe http://svt.se/ ?
We have Yle.fi, doesnt make Yle anymore a company. Its Yleisradio, same as SVT is Sveriges Television. It baffles my mind why anyone would want to add anything else but the real company. You are so right, whispering. This is what I'm trying to say, but it's also what just doesn't get through... I mean, what is the thing that differs SVT from abbreviating Fox? Or whatever company? To others: IMO this debate is already over and I have cleaned my DB from "SVT" and "SF" entries and also contributed them to the online DB. Not one person is complaining, so far... "SVT" is the transcription of their logo, with the letters and the flower/star symbol. And naturally it's also short for Sveriges Television. If we can come to the conclusion that it's not correct to write "20th Century Fox/20th/Fox", we can in the same way come to the conclusion that SVT is nothing more than an abbreviation. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 20th_Century_FoxWe have taken this SO far now. And IMO only irrelevant, invalid or lack-of-knowledge arguments on the "no" side has been uttered. Sometimes even bordering on ignorance. Spell out the full names... | | | Last edited: by MikaLove |
| Registered: May 2, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 490 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting whispering:
Quote: We have Yle.fi, doesnt make Yle anymore a company. Its Yleisradio, same as SVT is Sveriges Television. It baffles my mind why anyone would want to add anything else but the real company. Because it is not uncommon for companies to adopt the abbreviation and use it instead of the real name. Off the top of my head, I can think of eight...BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, TNT, TNN, FOX and CNN. Granted, all but one are US companies, but the fact that I could easily come up with eight tells me it shouldn't baffle anyone. But what YOU don't seem to get, is that "SVT" and "SF" is NOT(!!!) official. |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,678 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quote: So while SVT Drama is "some kind" of production company, SVT is still the main company, and they are still called Sveriges Television. It doesn't matter. We track the actual production company, not the main company. I think there is a complication here. As far as I know, SVT Drama is not a company at all. It is the drama department within Sveriges Televison. So would that still make it production company as far as Profiler is concerned? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users. Gunnar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
For Sveriges Television and the stuff that they have produced, there IS sometimes the need to "translate" their various logos or "abbreviations". For Ebba och Didrik as an example. First we see the media company logos: PanVision. And (indeed...) SVT. OK. Now we have the media companies. The same SVT logo is stamped on the cover. But there is NO text. Just the SVT logo. Then the episode starts with this logo. After the episode, we see this logo.
What do you make of that? It would be incorrect to enter "SVT" as production company! Unless you skip all the rules.
You NEED to translate that logo into something. The correct thing would be to translate it into "Sveriges Television Kanal 1 Drama". For one thing "SVT 1" did not exist at the time this series was made. And SVT 1 is not a production company either. So while you are at it, you could as well translate SVT – the logo and abbreviation – into Sveriges Television. I don't have the title you are using in your example, but from the screen caps it looks like you have found a title that only has company logotypes. I'm frankly a bit surprised that they don't have a standard credits roll but I guess anything is possible. However, as I've said all the time while you haven't been paying attention: if the only credit is the logo, you can enter the "correct" or proper name if you happen to know it. I think we established that long ago but it seems you still don't get it. But if you find a title that says something like An SVT Production (obviously in Swedish) or SVT Drama Presents etc, then that is the credit I would use in Profiler. Because that is exactly what it says. | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
| Registered: May 2, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 490 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
I don't have the title you are using in your example, but from the screen caps it looks like you have found a title that only has company logotypes. I'm frankly a bit surprised that they don't have a standard credits roll but I guess anything is possible. However, as I've said all the time while you haven't been paying attention: if the only credit is the logo, you can enter the "correct" or proper name if you happen to know it. I think we established that long ago but it seems you still don't get it.
But if you find a title that says something like An SVT Production (obviously in Swedish) or SVT Drama Presents etc, then that is the credit I would use in Profiler. Because that is exactly what it says. Ah, an excuse. It's funny how you make all this about me. Like I'm the only one who has these opinions. IMO you are proposing that we ALL would bypass the rules here, and enter whatever we like to enter. If we SEE "SVT", we enter "SVT". If we see Fox, we enter Fox, and so on. Because why would SVT be an exception? So far I haven't seen "An SVT Production". Because SVT don't produce films. They are a television broadcasting company. Maybe you didn't know that? I would only agree that SVT Drama is a "company", but not a REAL, big one. Just a part of SVT that produces some television. Often series. But you just go on and on... Soon, I'm done discussing. If you don't want to understand, then it's hopeless. It's like you just argue for argument's sake. And as far as "entering the proper or correct name for a logo", well that just shows ignorance, doesn't it? You are saying that if I see a "Universal Pictures/Studios" logo, which doesn't say more than "Universal", it's "OK" to enter Universal only. Or another example is the Carolco logo, from Carolco pictures. If the database isn't based on knowledge, consistency and logic, then what do we base it on? @ GSyren: You are correct. It's not really a company. SVT is not THAT large. But it might still be considered a company, even if, in the end, it's my opinion that entering "Sveriges Television", wouldn't be totally wrong. Because SVT Drama is under Sveriges Television. And not as a smaller company. I'm not 100% sure, however. So for now, I could accept having "SVT Drama" in the database. Or "Sveriges Television Kanal 1 Drama", which it was called earlier. Different logos though. EDIT: I tried to look up "SVT Drama" as a company, but failed. I visited "their own" site (http://svt.se/drama/ OR http://svt.se/ film/), as well as checked on http://www.bolagsverket.se. No such company... AFAIK SVT Drama has their own telephone number (yay!) – which goes to a p.e.r.s.o.n.'s cellphone! (Margareta Feldt-Arehn – she is employed by SVT). Another thing that they have is their own building and in that a studio, for their production. But does that make them a company? Naah. | | | Last edited: by MikaLove |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote: But what YOU don't seem to get, is that "SVT" and "SF" is NOT(!!!) official. It seems, once again, that you didn't bother to read what I wrote as I don't believe I said they were. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quote: So while SVT Drama is "some kind" of production company, SVT is still the main company, and they are still called Sveriges Television. It doesn't matter. We track the actual production company, not the main company. I think there is a complication here. As far as I know, SVT Drama is not a company at all. It is the drama department within Sveriges Televison. So would that still make it production company as far as Profiler is concerned? I guess it depends on your point of view. If they are their own seperate department, responsible for production, then the answer is 'yes'. For what it's worth, IMDb considers them a production company with 497 films/shows to their credit. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting MikaLove: Quote:
IMO you are proposing that we ALL would bypass the rules here, and enter whatever we like to enter. If we SEE "SVT", we enter "SVT". If we see Fox, we enter Fox, and so on. Because why would SVT be an exception?
So far I haven't seen "An SVT Production". Because SVT don't produce films. They are a television broadcasting company. Maybe you didn't know that?
I would only agree that SVT Drama is a "company", but not a REAL, big one. Just a part of SVT that produces some television. Often series.
And as far as "entering the proper or correct name for a logo", well that just shows ignorance, doesn't it? You are saying that if I see a "Universal Pictures/Studios" logo, which doesn't say more than "Universal", it's "OK" to enter Universal only. Or another example is the Carolco logo, from Carolco pictures.
I don't know if you're deliberately playing dumb but SVT produces films, series, documentaries, music and entertainment shows, and so on, and also often co-produces theatrical films. Many of these will find their way to DVD so to claim that SVT is a television broadcaster only must be the strangest statement from you yet. Who then, produces what they broadcast I wonder? Some unknown company we haven't heard of yet? I'm waiting for you to dream up some more fantasies... In any case, we enter the production companies as they are presented in the credits of every production without any assumptions on how they should look. The only person proposing to enter anything else is you. As for your last statement, I have no idea what you're going on about, unless again, you're deliberatly playing dumb. Like I've said a number of time, logos are not the first place to look for credits, text credits are always preferable since they usually give the correct name for our purposes. If, and only if, there are no text credits, you can enter what you consider to be the correct name. If you still don't know what that is after all this talk, just use the name from the logo. | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,380 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Because it is not uncommon for companies to adopt the abbreviation and use it instead of the real name. Off the top of my head, I can think of eight...BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, TNT, TNN, FOX and CNN. Granted, all but one are US companies, but the fact that I could easily come up with eight tells me it shouldn't baffle anyone. But are these official names or not? Thats the key issue here. On the bottom of nbc.com site it says © nbc universal, inc on svt.se it says: © Sveriges Television. Fox is the surname of William Fox AFAIK. Cant be bothered to check the others cause i have no idea how to check company info on US companies. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,380 |
| Posted: | | | | I think the main question here is
Do we add company divisions or only subsidiary's? If we do add the former, then company names should always be as credited, with no exceptions. Since a division can run under any name, and are not official names. So any change to a common name would be against the rules. And i think this is what MikaLove has been trying to say, we can not have different rules for different companies. | | | Last edited: by whispering |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: Because it is not uncommon for companies to adopt the abbreviation and use it instead of the real name. Off the top of my head, I can think of eight...BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, TNT, TNN, FOX and CNN. Granted, all but one are US companies, but the fact that I could easily come up with eight tells me it shouldn't baffle anyone.
But are these official names or not? Thats the key issue here. On the bottom of nbc.com site it says © nbc universal, inc on svt.se it says: © Sveriges Television. Fox is the surname of William Fox AFAIK. Cant be bothered to check the others cause i have no idea how to check company info on US companies. I was not saying that SVT was correct, I was simply pointing out that using the abbreviated name is quite common...at least here in the states...and that is why someone would do it without a second thought. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote: I think the main question here is
Do we add company divisions or only subsidiary's? If we do add the former, then company names should always be as credited, with no exceptions. Since a division can run under any name, and are not official names. In my opinion, we add the company that is listed in the credits. Quote: So any change to a common name would be against the rules. And i think this is what MikaLove has been trying to say, we can not have different rules for different companies. I don't know where you are getting this from as the rules say nothing about common names. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,299 |
| Posted: | | | | Why on earth are people who likely will never own anything that Sveriges Television has ever had anything to do with debating in this thread? Why not leave that to those who will actually be affected by the outcome of this debate? | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS! Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles. You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,380 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: I don't know where you are getting this from as the rules say nothing about common names. Read the Studios topic, its filled with those. And the rules say "There is further information about correct listings of studios and media companies, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum.".Quoting Astrakan: Quote: Why on earth are people who likely will never own anything that Sveriges Television has ever had anything to do with debating in this thread? Why not leave that to those who will actually be affected by the outcome of this debate? Because it effects how current and future rules are formed. The rules should be made so that they are universal. Its easy to make few exceptions on US studios, but when it spreads through other regions we have a mess. | | | Last edited: by whispering |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: I don't know where you are getting this from as the rules say nothing about common names.
Read the Studios topic, its filled with those. And the rules say "There is further information about correct listings of studios and media companies, and the opportunity to ask questions if unsure, in the Contributions forum.". The Studios topic is no longer pinned, maintained or linked to from the rules. In addition, while I know it is a popular misconception, that sentence does not tell us to use a common name. It simply tells us that we can find further information in the forums and can ask question if we are unsure. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 1,380 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: The Studios topic is no longer pinned, maintained or linked to from the rules. In addition, while I know it is a popular misconception, that sentence does not tell us to use a common name. It simply tells us that we can find further information in the forums and can ask question if we are unsure. 20th Century Fox, Universal, Disney, Lets see how far ill get with those. Thanks for the info on the Studios topic though, ive wondered why i havent found it anymore. | | | Last edited: by whispering |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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