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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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New naming system |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 18, 2007 |  Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Please explain, with examples, how a name could be parsed into a single field more than one way. Here's an example I posted in a different thread back in March of why this wouldn't work. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Please explain, with examples, how a name could be parsed into a single field more than one way.
Here's an example I posted in a different thread back in March of why this wouldn't work. Sorry, but there is no way to enter the Japanese versions of the names, therefore, it makes no difference how you translate the actual Japanese. If Ken decides to add that capability to the program, then you can have it exactly the way you want. All that can be entered are the "English" credits (or French, or German, etc). If the filmmaker transposed the person's name.....sorry....that's what gets entered. This has absolutely nothing to do with parsing or single name field versus two name field versus three name field. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
If you bothered reading my post you may have noticed, this is also used in other countries!
The point is that it is not used in *all* countries, and even where it is used, first/middle/last names can ALWAYS be mapped to given names or family names.
The reverse is not true, since there is no agreement and no way to prove (since there is no accepted definition) whether a particular given name or a family name counts as "first", "middle" or "last".
To summarise: first/middle/last only has meaning in some countries (and even then the meaning is disputed). Given/family has a universal, international meaning. This is a program with an international customer base and hence it should use the option which accommodates everyone. common practice is to follow the rules, credit as on screen! If the credit says: Gong Li then you enter Gong/ /Li Why would you change this? Even Asian sites follow this. http://www.sonyclassics.com/zhou/main.html | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
All that can be entered are the "English" credits (or French, or German, etc). So are you saying for the hundreds of thousands of Asian DVD releases that only have credits in their native language, we shouldn't enter any credits in Profiler at all? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Simple...
what I would personally do...
1. Single Name Field... would solve all parsing (IMO)
2. Rules of USe... type in name exactly as as credited in the credits. If English Alphabet not used... type it in as it is read. In the cases where you get both Non-English Alphabet as well as English Alphabet credits... use the Credits in the English Alphabet... as that is what DVD Profiler can handle at this time. (Which could change if program ability ever changes).
So nope I still don't see how a single name field would not solve all parsing problems. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
common practice is to follow the rules, credit as on screen! If the credit says: Gong Li then you enter Gong/ /Li Why would you change this? Even Asian sites follow this. http://www.sonyclassics.com/zhou/main.html See my example above of when it's credited "on screen" in more than one way. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Fly:
Once again I have to point out that what you want to achievve is infinite correctness, that is IMPOSSIBLE with so many different countries involved. Or toi put it another way what you REALLY want is data that is pre-packaged the way YOU want to see it for download and you don't have to touch it. That is not going to happen without a level of complexity that is very difficult to imagine. Your infinite correctness can be handled in only one place , your LOCAL, that is how it SHOULD be and that is how it was designed.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,366 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
All that can be entered are the "English" credits (or French, or German, etc).
So are you saying for the hundreds of thousands of Asian DVD releases that only have credits in their native language, we shouldn't enter any credits in Profiler at all? Where exactly did I say that?  If there are no English credits, then the only thing that can be done is to translate them. Your example clearly showed English credits were displayed. That's what needs to be entered. When and if Ken enables the entry of Japanese (Chinese, Korean, Russian, Greek, etc) languages into DVDP, then in the example you give, the credits would be entered in both languages using dividers. For now, we enter only the English credits that are displayed. And I repeat, this is not a parsing issue. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
common practice is to follow the rules, credit as on screen! If the credit says: Gong Li then you enter Gong/ /Li Why would you change this? Even Asian sites follow this. http://www.sonyclassics.com/zhou/main.html
See my example above of when it's credited "on screen" in more than one way. They provide a Westernised credit: Quote:
Mai//Nakahara. Oh my god, whatever shall we do?!?!! follow the rules 1st name field: Mailast name field: Nakahara if you see: Mai Nakahara or Nakahara Mai, you're knowledgable enough to know that he/she is the same person. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
common practice is to follow the rules, credit as on screen! If the credit says: Gong Li then you enter Gong/ /Li Why would you change this? Even Asian sites follow this. http://www.sonyclassics.com/zhou/main.html
See my example above of when it's credited "on screen" in more than one way. No it's not Fly, we tell you which set of credits to use, so you are applying an interpretation that would be against the Rules. Ken has already weighed in on part of this when he specifically stated "We try to keep rules simple even (sometimes) at the cost of infinite "accuracy". ". So that is the starting point and you need to rethink your position within that context. I will repeat I have offered up a compromise that is imminently workable, not perfect, no compromise ever is,but it will work for the online. Then as I have said repeatedly beyond that you are free to do whatever you wish with your local data, that is YOURS , I don't care what you do, what hal does or anybody else with their local. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | This isn't hard, Fly.But you can continue chasing your tail, it's not going to get you anywhere.All you have to do is FOLLOW the Rules, it is really very EASY to do.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
If there are no English credits, then the only thing that can be done is to translate them. What about if there are only partial English credits (e.g. only main roles translated, possibly in the subtitles) but full credits in the native language? Should we only add those credited in English, or romanise the rest and add them too? If the latter, what name order do we use? Quote:
For now, we enter only the English credits that are displayed. I've just double-checked the rules page for credits and I can't see this listed anywhere. I agree that it's what usually happens in practice, but it's not in the rules. |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
No it's not Fly, we tell you which set of credits to use, so you are applying an interpretation that would be against the Rules. Please point me to the line in the rules that says "Where credits are in the film's native language but an English translation is provided, credits should only be taken from the English translation". Because I can't find it. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
If there are no English credits, then the only thing that can be done is to translate them.
What about if there are only partial English credits (e.g. only main roles translated, possibly in the subtitles) but full credits in the native language? Should we only add those credited in English, or romanise the rest and add them too? If the latter, what name order do we use? Enter the English credits exactly as on screen, and enter the rest that appear on screen in the native language translating them as you think right. If you're wrong, someone else will come along to challenge you. Quote:
Quote:
For now, we enter only the English credits that are displayed.
I've just double-checked the rules page for credits and I can't see this listed anywhere. I agree that it's what usually happens in practice, but it's not in the rules. Since the foreign language credits cannot be entered, exactly how do you propose to enter them? I really think you are trying to make this harder than it really is. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
If there are no English credits, then the only thing that can be done is to translate them.
What about if there are only partial English credits (e.g. only main roles translated, possibly in the subtitles) but full credits in the native language? Should we only add those credited in English, or romanise the rest and add them too? If the latter, what name order do we use?
Quote:
For now, we enter only the English credits that are displayed.
I've just double-checked the rules page for credits and I can't see this listed anywhere. I agree that it's what usually happens in practice, but it's not in the rules. Fly: Relative to translating native language credits which the system cannot deal with , I don't think anyone would argue with you over ordering, I am certainly not going to. its a system shortcoming, there is nothing I can do about it, I can't really address it directly in the Rules at this time, because MOST users will not have the ability to translate and argue about the Ordering, I may be able to do some translation but I still, at this time would be loathe to argue with you over it, nor would I be likely to change it if I disagreed, simply because we can't cope with it now. Maybe someday, and when that day comes the we can fight about it.  Right now , as my wife would put it, you are only borrowing trouble. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Feature Requests |
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