 |
|
|
|
Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum
rules before posting.
Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free
registration is required.
If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.
|
|
|
|
|
Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
Page:
1... 6 7 8 9 10 11  Previous Next
|
|
Puppeteers |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know I haven't commented on this before, so I will Now.
While I do agree that there are definitions for standard credits and actors where those standard credits are, I think I must agree with HAL on this point.
The Additional section reads
In addition to the above, the following rules should be followed:
* For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
* If puppeteers are included in the end credits include them and append (puppeteer) at the end of the role.
* If an actor name is only a first name or stage name enter it entirely in the first name field. Examples are Cher, Madonna, Cedric the Entertainer & Queen Latifah.
* If an actor's credited name includes a nickname, highlighted by ", ’ or ( ), list it in the middle name field. For example John "JS" Smith, John ‘JS’ Smith or John (JS) Smith
* Articles (such as de, de la, di, von) are entered in the appropriate name field along with the name that they precede. Use the film credits to determine whether the actor capitalizes this article or not.
* Uncredited actors may be listed in alphabetical order following all credited actors. Use the "Uncredited" checkbox to indicate these. Uncredited actors are not required entries.
* Do not translate foreign language role names to the language of the locality unless a translation is provided in the film credits.
* Do not include artificial actor entries to act as separators between cast lists. (e.g. "--JAPANESE CAST--"), instead use the Divider feature for this.
I call your attention to the part bolded by me. The uncredited are not listed (hence uncredited) any where in standard or non standard credits. We are allowed to include them as long as we have proper documentation.
The part that I italicized states only if they are included within the end credits.
If this section of the rule were to be a reference to the first section of the rule, then the uncredited cast could never be included, they are not mentioned in the cast list.
The rule is ambiguous at best, and poorly written at worst, if the intent were to only include puppeteers if they were within the cast list.
And really, strictly speaking, stunt people could not be included, since by definition they are not cast, unless I miss something in the actual rules
The way this rule is written, whether intentional or not, can be interpreted to allow puppeteers,as long as they are in the end credits. Strictly speaking, if they are in the opening credits, they can not be included (this is an obtuse position I know) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Charlie:
While I understand what you are saying. You are claiming that the Puppeteers takes precedence over the Primary Rule and is thus completely independent. As I have explained that simply cannot be the case because it totally invalidates the primary Rule. Such a cobncept simply does not make sense. Everything operates off of the primary rule, not instead of.
Your argument however was well put and far more rational than anything I have seen thus far.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
Ok idiot. Like I said this is NOT news., All you need to know that my wife is not a well woman and what have done in the past few years were based on allowing me to back her up in what she did. I needed something to do that allowed me flexibility to be able travel whne necessary because of her job, she was unable, and still is to do the long-distance driving that her job required.
I doubt seriously if you are even old enough to to be out from under your parents wing. In my life I have done far more than you will ever be able to understand, let alone understand why it might be necessary to sacrifice myself for the benefit of the woman that I am married to. I have forgotten far more about database design and film than you are EVER going to learn.
Like I said this nothing new here, others like you who have nothing of worth to say have tried the same smear game.Now keep your snide remarks to yourself.
They like your avatar only define your lack of knowledge. All you have the ability to do is make assumptions and they make a total ass of YOU.
Skip
Wow. Fly off the handle unnecessarily much? Alien: I did not launch the attack.I responded to one. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Really? Where did he attack you? Point that out, as I'm genuinely curious. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Now mind you, I am not advocating for or against puppeteers in the cast listing. I am just stating an interpreted reading of the rules.
I personally think that we need to be careful of what is and is not in the cast list.
There are people that would like to include ADR voices, while they are part of the effect of the movie, I am not so sure that I would like to include them. The same goes for puppeteers. I am not so sure that I would like those either, same for stunt people.
I can see the argument for including them. Puppeteers play an important part in the film as do stunt people.
Of course this is my opinion. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Really? Where did he attack you? Point that out, as I'm genuinely curious. Oh come on, pick most of his posts. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's what I thought. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Now mind you, I am not advocating for or against puppeteers in the cast listing. I am just stating an interpreted reading of the rules.
I personally think that we need to be careful of what is and is not in the cast list.
There are people that would like to include ADR voices, while they are part of the effect of the movie, I am not so sure that I would like to include them. The same goes for puppeteers. I am not so sure that I would like those either, same for stunt people.
I can see the argument for including them. Puppeteers play an important part in the film as do stunt people.
Of course this is my opinion. Charlie: I understand that and i agree with you. Which is why I said we need to have that discussion, but as of right now, this particular group of Puppeteers does not meet the conditions set forth by the Primary Rule for Cast. Should it be in the future, I don't think so, they simply are not part of the cast. Much like the ADR voices,or even sometimes Additional Voices which are Crew instead of cast. It is nearly always easy to ascretain who is Cast, they are typically in a section labeled CAST. But then we move into strange areas, even Twilight Zoneish when we start dealing with people claiming something is cast when it is clearly NOT. But if we are going to argue that all Puppeteers are going to be cast, then Stunt People are also Cast , which I don't happen to agree with either, unless they are actually a part of the cast list which has been described numerous times over the years If Cast has no boundaries then everybody is Cast. There is No Crew. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 26, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 599 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
That's what I thought.  |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | |  I know! Let's stop trying to goad people! | | | | Last edited: by Dr. Killpatient |
| | Registered: September 3, 2008 | | Posts: 34 |
| | Posted: | | | | What about actual puppets? I'm sure that Kermit the Frog has some credits under his name. THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. | | | What James Knows
HorrorTalk |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Now mind you, I am not advocating for or against puppeteers in the cast listing. I am just stating an interpreted reading of the rules.
I personally think that we need to be careful of what is and is not in the cast list.
There are people that would like to include ADR voices, while they are part of the effect of the movie, I am not so sure that I would like to include them. The same goes for puppeteers. I am not so sure that I would like those either, same for stunt people.
I can see the argument for including them. Puppeteers play an important part in the film as do stunt people.
Of course this is my opinion. Puppeteers might well be intended to be treated differently than other cast; since it's an oddball credit they sometimes show up in the cast list itself and sometimes in a separate Puppeteers section. I don't have a problem including both for consistency. And I see nothing in the rule prohibiting ADR voices from being contributed as "voice." | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
My girlfriend said we were all losers and otherwise declined to comment.  Just tell her then that we will see who's a loser tonight. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Now mind you, I am not advocating for or against puppeteers in the cast listing. I am just stating an interpreted reading of the rules.
I personally think that we need to be careful of what is and is not in the cast list.
There are people that would like to include ADR voices, while they are part of the effect of the movie, I am not so sure that I would like to include them. The same goes for puppeteers. I am not so sure that I would like those either, same for stunt people.
I can see the argument for including them. Puppeteers play an important part in the film as do stunt people.
Of course this is my opinion.
Puppeteers might well be intended to be treated differently than other cast; since it's an oddball credit they sometimes show up in the cast list itself and sometimes in a separate Puppeteers section. I don't have a problem including both for consistency.
And I see nothing in the rule prohibiting ADR voices from being contributed as "voice." I do, gard.They are not listed at under Sound which is where they would appear. ADR vioices are NEVER EVER cast. Ihave a feeling you were being flip. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | My opinion is no more valid that all the others but "in addition to" does not automatically mean that you parse rule one then parse rule 2 it can mean rule one unless 2 contradicts it.
The rules tell us if there are standard credits to take "all credited actors involved" from there. Ok I can do that
It then says to take puppeteers from the end credits. Then as far as I can see, provided they are at the end of the film, I can credit them within the rules. They are not actors so I am not restricted to taking them from the Standard Credits just the end credits. Unlike stunt artists who are actors.
The only thing that I think this shows, as others have said is that if it causes this confusion, then the rule is not clear enough whatever it was intended to mean. Hence why there are people who make a living doing nothing else but drafting rules and legislation. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well I follow your logic Grave, but I don't view the primary rule as subservient to whatever follows it. I view the primary rule as just that and everything answers to it. Thus the puppeteers do NOT meet the test.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|
|
|
Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
Page:
1... 6 7 8 9 10 11 Previous Next
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |