Where was the insult?

It's a shame as he has a fantastic program, a very dedicated set of users (as shown by the passion in the forums) and many people with great ideas of possibilities. To take ten minutes out of the day to perhaps respond, acknowledge, quell the crap (which I won't disagree I have played a largeish part in) and last but not least, offer a response to rule interpretation, no threads would be more than a page.

I'm not sure Ken realises that showing some time (even a very small amount every few days) in the forums will lessen the crap and help get more sales.

I'm sure many people have seen the site/had it recommended to them, and been scared off by reading the forums first.

Quoting TheMadMartian:

Quote:
Based on what I have seen with small software companies, this is how programmers are...great at the programming, not so great at the customer service.After a while, you kinda get used to it. 

This is true. I work in IT, and the programmers are awesome, but not so good with people. (Note, that's not good or bad, it just is, because like you said, after a while, you kinda get used to it.  )

That said, I think Profiler is unique in that without the contributors it would be nothing. The program Ken wrote is fantastic, yes, no argument. But the people take it up a level with the contributions, suggestions, add-ons, skins, etc. To be honest, the program would be nothing without Ken just as much as it would be nothing without the work, volunteer, mind you, of the people contributing to it.

With such a hand-in-hand operation, it's frustrating to see people who contribute so much to the program leave because of bitterness in the forum (which, yes, I have been a part of) is sad and shocking. I honestly feel that Ken doesn't care about the users once he gets the money, due to the lack of response in these threads. And while I freely admit I have said my share of things, this has been going on long before I started posting and will continue to go on until a foot is placed down.

All that needs to happen is simple communication from the powers that be to the people who are begging for it.

(And, again, I am aware of the irony in my post, but I also admit that I'm not the type to sit back quietly and get berated by someone for no reason. )

I agree that the bickering is needless but it's is not the disease. It's a symptom and the disease is the fact that certain things related to DVDP and more specifically the online need to be set straight or taken care of. The only one that can do that, is Invelos (Ken). I agree with you guys that some problems seem to have been present forever and need urgent attention yet aren't tackled by the Invelos (how to properly profile Asian releases, for one, comes to mind)

On the other hand it's not fair to say Ken doesn't care. He seems to be hard at work on the new beta which addresses many local issues people have been complaining about or adds much-requested features. What I do question is the strategic choices made: more energy seems to go into development of new features of the program (since these are visible, it can help attract new customers) but not enough seems to go into the less visible aspects (such as the online), where long-time users are the biggest demanding party. From a business-perspective, I can understand Invelos works that way but it would be nice to have a double team on Invelos: one for new developments and one to answer complaints or wishes of existing users.

Quite correct, Antares.

And the word that tripped me up I will never forget nor will I ever misspell it again. Who know you might even be able to find some very interesting news articles from the time with some very amusing pictures.

For those who are curious the word was Fusillade. And so there is no confusion as 54 was NOT the number of my finishing that was my registered number much like numbers assigned in any other competition. And William Clutter, whom I remember, was not the winner that year. He just "wore" #1.

But there are those here who could certainly do with some lessons, polite, manners or civility, something which seems to be in very short supply in these parts.

I am a horrible typist, and there are those who would become unnerved if I started giving great care to such things, anywhere except Contributions, somebody even gave my typos their own name a few years back, Skipos Siome people on the other hand simply like to try and belittle others, don't they Antares.

Skip

Quoting Taro:

Quote:
I agree that the bickering is needless but it's is not the disease. It's a symptom and the disease is the fact that certain things related to DVDP and more specifically the online need to be set straight or taken care of. The only one that can do that, is Invelos (Ken). I agree with you guys that some problems seem to have been present forever and need urgent attention yet aren't tackled by the Invelos (how to properly profile Asian releases, for one, comes to mind)

On the other hand it's not fair to say Ken doesn't care. He seems to be hard at work on the new beta which addresses many local issues people have been complaining about or adds much-requested features. What I do question is the strategic choices made: more energy seems to go into development of new features of the program (since these are visible, it can help attract new customers) but not enough seems to go into the less visible aspects (such as the online), where long-time users are the biggest demanding party. From a business-perspective, I can understand Invelos works that way but it would be nice to have a double team on Invelos: one for new developments and one to answer complaints or wishes of existing users.

Well said and completely agreed.

The updates and work going into the new releases are no doubt important and quite obviously time consuming, but it's frustrating as hell that the needs of the current customers just aren't being addressed.

Admittedly, if the "500,000 users" number is to believed, the forum is but a minuscule part of the user base, and I would be tempted to ignore us forum members, too. However, the website is obviously the face of this company, and the forum is part of that face. Someone had said if they had looked at the forum before they bought the program, they would not have bothered, and I agree with them. Right now there is a four page argument going on over puppets. PUPPETS. This is a typical thread where the rules are not clear (or maybe they are, but to the only person that understands them, that's debatable -- and, in case you didn't notice, sarcastic), but the saddest part is nobody is expecting Ken or Gerri to come in and clear things up because historically, it just doesn't happen.

Now, look at that thread from a potential buyer's eyes. If this mess of a contribution forum is where you are to go to get answers to your questions (or, in other words, the customer service phone number you are to call when you need assistance), would you buy the program? I sure as hell wouldn't. Why would someone want to drop $30 -- or whatever the price is now -- with the expectation of if you need any help, you will have to put up with a 20 page thread of bickering and retardness, and your question will most likely never get answered. Who wants to pay for that?

The updates Ken makes to the program will definitely get new purchasers, but the forum side definitely lose potential purchasers. Because of the lack of care from the owners, I certainly do not recommend the program. I could make a couple calls right now and get Invelos at the very least three more licenses, but I won't because the recommendation is a reflection on me. I won't get behind a program that doesn't get behind its customers.

That's not to say I'm 100% of the belief that Invelos doesn't care once they get their money, because if it really is only Ken and Gerri, they are pretty damn overwhelmed. However, the lack of action on the forum side makes me believe more and more each day that, no, nothing will change.

It's frustrating to think that, too, especially since there are so many people willing to volunteer and give a hand to help out even more than they already are.

Quoting Romzarah:

Quote:
I have used this program for years, for that mater, before Invelos got it. I never even looked at the forum till a month ago. What made me think to come here? Blank profiles. I came here to learn how to edit and contribute profiles. I had an ever increasing number of profiles with nothing in them. After just a few weeks of working on it, most are filled in now, but I can see why they were blank. The rules are hard to understand on some points, and some of the people in the forum act like they would be happy if you quit and never came back. One of them we all know. Starts with a W and ends with an A. On the other hand, there is a lot of good people here, who bend over backwards to help and I thank all of you who have helped me.

Another voice of reason.

green arrow for you sir!

Quoting surfeur51:

Quote:
Quoting Romzarah:

Quote:
I had an ever increasing number of profiles with nothing in them. After just a few weeks of working on it, most are filled in now, but I can see why they were blank. The rules are hard to understand on some points, and some of the people in the forum act like they would be happy if you quit and never came back.

I've been saying that for two years now, but I thought it was mainly a problem in my zone/country. If this also happens in Zone 1/US, I think that Ken should really think about something which might become a real problem for the success of his (wonderful) program.

More cheese for you, surfeur. Same old, same old and more of it. getting awfully deep around here, have to go find my hip waders.

Skip