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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Desktop Technical Support |
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import cast from imdb ? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Vittra:
The good news is that the monster is beatable. The bad news is that from where I sit, it is definitely a daunting proposition because I don't see very many users who really understand the issues let alone how to go about fixing them, I see a lot of people who want to go on and on about how wonderful they think IMDb, which makes me ask why they are here then, or they want to moan about how restrictive the Rules are, which again appears to be just users that want things their way and have very little understanding of the purpose and the differences between the Online and the local.
I am ready tyo roll up my shirtsleeves and take on this behenoth that Ken has created, I know how to do it, but I'll be damned if I will do it alone, the big reason is that while i understand the linking and why people want ti, but for myself i don't really need it, my personal built-in database can link mqany actors and crew without a computer. But if people really want to make it work, and are willing to get it done, I'll be happy to help, it's a lot of work but to really all that hard. this means everybody, even those fast moving french, stop watching Le Mans, Yves...LOL. So do we want to fix it or not, you guys make the call.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,456 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
So do we want to fix it or not, you guys make the call.
Skip I have discovered that I don't have the patience for database work, but if any kind of program or plugin can help in this effort, please let me know - I would try to help out. Seems like a worthwhile effort, although I don't understand all the issues, I'm all for teamwork. | | | Thanks for your support.
Free Plugins available here.
Advanced plugins available here.
Hey, new product!!! BDPFrog. | | | | Last edited: by mediadogg |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I think you are probably right about US zone1 casual users. There are many contributors and most UPC are in the database. This is totally wrong with some other countries/zones. Nearly half time I get a new DVD, I do not find it in the database. So I had to contribute new profiles for nearly 450 movies on a 1050 collection. And when the UPC exists, most data are empty. If people want to use an existing profile from another country/zone, they have to search on title. I had often explained why we have this situation. Just to illustrate it, I recently submitted two changes, what I do very rarely. Result on both contributions: Yes votes : 0, No votes : 0 . -> No contributors, no voters, no profiles. At the time of Intervocative, before the rules, it was quite impossible to be the first to send a new profile in my country/zone. Guess why ? This matches my recent experience with 24 purchases of non-R1-USA DVDs, most of them R2-UK. Of those 14 were not in the Invelos database. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Profiler, on the other hand, was designed as collection tracking software. As such, all the data had to conform to each individual item. Name linking wasn't even considered. Buh? I've been using DVD Profiler for nearly ten years now, and as far as I remember name linking was always touted as a major feature of the program. Just like it still is today: Quoting Invelos.comQuote:
...browse your collection by actor or director through a filmography customized to your collection. Maybe at the very beginning name linking wasn't part of the plan, but it's certainly been for a decade and since the feature is being touted as one of the main reasons to buy it, I really don't think it's too much to ask that the feature work flawlessly. I think it's a fix that is many years overdue. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am sorry, but if an IMDb style name linking system was the goal, names would not have been entered on a strictly 'as credited' basis. While you can click on an actor's name and pull up all the films with that name, you can't get anything like IMDb offers. So, yea, I guess some linking was intended, but nothing like what some people seem to be asking for. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I am sorry, but if an IMDb style name linking system was the goal, names would not have been entered on a strictly 'as credited' basis. While you can click on an actor's name and pull up all the films with that name, you can't get anything like IMDb offers. So, yea, I guess some linking was intended, but nothing like what some people seem to be asking for. Why couldn't we have both?  No reason we couldn't have an as credited entry but still only need to link said as credited name to the other one time rather than on a credit by credit basis. Although your point still stands that this might require a full database overhaul and I know nothing about how it would work. If each name had a unique ID attached to it, you would need only link one to the other making them the same actor/actress. Doesn't seem to complicated to me. Really the IMDB system doesn't differ hugely from what we do here. They still have credited as for aliases in "()" after a credit. The difference is they don't have to make the same link of John Smith 1969 = Johnny Smith two hundred times since once is all that's necessary. I also believe the standard should be that all movies carry the same credits with the ability to add exceptions, but that's a whole new can of worms.  This would help the smaller regions with their bare profiles quite a bit I'd imagine.  | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 79 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
The good news is that the monster is beatable. Woola, I admire your optimism  I don't think you will ever reach the goal of having all profiles correct per the rules. Many of them are clearly abandoned and will never see another update. Does this represent a problem? Not really! It's only a problem if you think the purpose of the CLT is to list a person's most commonly credited name. If you see the CLT only as a tool to allow all users to select the same variant as the common name, which is what it was designed to be, then errors in unused profiles become a non-issue. Quoting Woola: Quote:
I see a lot of people who want to go on and on about how wonderful they think IMDb, which makes me ask why they are here then I'm not advocating getting IMDb data into the DVDP database. What I praised IMDb for was their strong focus on providing value to their users. This has made IMDb a tremendously successful web site with a user base DVDP can only dream of. You may scoff at this, but I'm sure Ken does not. To give a practical example: Consider how often you turn to Profiler to find out what roles a certain actor/actress in your collection has played. Then consider how often you use Profiler to find out exactly how those roles were presented in the end credits. Myself, I do the former all the time, but very rarely the latter. As a rough estimate maybe 100 cases of the former for each case of the latter, meaning the exact presentation of the role is not very important to me. Would I like to see the exact credited role? Sure, it's an added bonus, but hardly the be-all and end-all of DVDP that many make it out to be. Another example: I want to find the DVDs I own that feature François Truffaut as director. So I type in "François Truffaut" in the crew filter. Done! Except ... I can't really be sure that I see all my DVDs with M. Truffaut. I have to consider the possibility that his name was listed capitalized in some of his films. So I need to make another filter, this time entering "Francois Truffaut" to see the rest of the profiles! This constitutes a broken user experience in my book. Fixing this problem has a higher value to me than maintaining strictly as credited roles. If forced to choose I know what I would sacrifice. In the above example there's no reason why we can't have both effective filtering on accented names and capturing on-screen roles. It is more an illustration that there are more important concerns than whether profile data is copied exactly as on screen. And before you pounce: I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself. I realise that the relative importance of individual features will vary from user to user and Ken has the unenviable task of deciding what aspects of the database should be given priority. I don't expect the result will fit my usage pattern exactly, but I can always hope. Thanks for listening! |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
Your whole country hates laws and speed limits?
1/The average french guy speaks english as well as the average american guy speaks french. And even you, as smart as you are, have some difficulties to understand rules written in english : In another thread, you show that you misunderstand this sentence : "The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film. The main examples are:..." 2/French people are rather cartesian. They may be reluctant to follow rules that are just stupid. Driving too fast may kill somebody. Correcting spelling mistakes, which is, BTW, generally taught at school, may hardly have the sames consequences, though I noticed that it is difficult for you to live without typos  . | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Dag:
The point that you don't see is that accuracy and ussability go hand in hand, accuracy begets usability, usability does not beget accuracy as is rpoven by your much ballyhooed IMDb...accuracy is not their strong suit. Also as the Matian pointed out IMDb and Profiler serve to very different purposes. If we were to become a clone of IMDb then in reality there would be no need for Profiler.
Ken has made the choice, Dag, and HE has also said that it is MOST COMMONLY CREDITED NAME that we are after, not "correct" names because since none of us are the people involved we cannot possibly know what the THE correct name really is, or even how correct is to be defined. As I have said my own name can represented by at least 25 variants...which one would be correct...and if I were to list them for you and let you guess you in all likelihood would be both wrong and surprised. But the overriding point is that Ken has made his decision and yet you go on and refuse to accept it, and continue to point to the altar of IMDb. They are very usable in your mind, and I see a database which has totally sacrificed accuracy. Profiler can be both accurate and usable but only if users follow the Rules.
And for surfeur you continue to believe that you know more than the DATA and I will tell what I always tell you, you have that ability in your LOCAL and ONLY in your local. For the Online the DATA rules, it's that simple, to have a half million users all running creating their own interpretations based upon what they believe to be proper spelling, grammar or whatever is utter lunacy. We have been down that path already, and it predictably was a complete mess. What you do locally is your choice, but for the Online it is all about DATA, REAL data which can be SEEN by all, not that exists in someone's mind.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: September 29, 2008 | | Posts: 384 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dag Ove: Quote:
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
The good news is that the monster is beatable.
Woola, I admire your optimism I don't think you will ever reach the goal of having all profiles correct per the rules. Many of them are clearly abandoned and will never see another update. Does this represent a problem? Not really! It's only a problem if you think the purpose of the CLT is to list a person's most commonly credited name. If you see the CLT only as a tool to allow all users to select the same variant as the common name, which is what it was designed to be, then errors in unused profiles become a non-issue.
Quoting Woola:
Quote:
I see a lot of people who want to go on and on about how wonderful they think IMDb, which makes me ask why they are here then
I'm not advocating getting IMDb data into the DVDP database. What I praised IMDb for was their strong focus on providing value to their users. This has made IMDb a tremendously successful web site with a user base DVDP can only dream of. You may scoff at this, but I'm sure Ken does not.
To give a practical example: Consider how often you turn to Profiler to find out what roles a certain actor/actress in your collection has played. Then consider how often you use Profiler to find out exactly how those roles were presented in the end credits. Myself, I do the former all the time, but very rarely the latter. As a rough estimate maybe 100 cases of the former for each case of the latter, meaning the exact presentation of the role is not very important to me. Would I like to see the exact credited role? Sure, it's an added bonus, but hardly the be-all and end-all of DVDP that many make it out to be.
Another example: I want to find the DVDs I own that feature François Truffaut as director. So I type in "François Truffaut" in the crew filter. Done! Except ... I can't really be sure that I see all my DVDs with M. Truffaut. I have to consider the possibility that his name was listed capitalized in some of his films. So I need to make another filter, this time entering "Francois Truffaut" to see the rest of the profiles! This constitutes a broken user experience in my book. Fixing this problem has a higher value to me than maintaining strictly as credited roles. If forced to choose I know what I would sacrifice.
In the above example there's no reason why we can't have both effective filtering on accented names and capturing on-screen roles. It is more an illustration that there are more important concerns than whether profile data is copied exactly as on screen.
And before you pounce: I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself. I realise that the relative importance of individual features will vary from user to user and Ken has the unenviable task of deciding what aspects of the database should be given priority. I don't expect the result will fit my usage pattern exactly, but I can always hope.
Thanks for listening! Another great post Dag!  | | | | "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
I see a lot of people who want to go on and on about how wonderful they think IMDb, which makes me ask why they are here Because DVDP is a good software to keep track of our collection. This isn't because we don't agree with some of the features that it means that DVDP is a piece of garbage. As you already know perfectly well it isn't necessary to use the online database to use DVDP... |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
1/The average french guy speaks english as well as the average american guy speaks french. So the average French doesn't speak english very well  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | But Aesp, you can go to your God and track 10,000 titles for free, why monkey around with profiler, when your God is so much superior, in your eyes. Or maybe it isn't all that hot which is why you use a Program that is intended to manage a collection. The program cannot be set up to serve Online the individual wishes of 500,000 users. When Ken decided to outlaw the use of IMDb data, it then became obvious what the choice was going to be, I must admit that I am surprised at how many users believe that they know more than the filmmakers do about any given film, now of course those users are totally wrong, they don't know more than the people who made the film. They can see as surfeur is want to do, what they BELIEVE is a typo, but is it REALLY, typos are done deliberately all the time, even by me, you would be amazed at just how many of mine are intentional, you can only think something is a typo, you can't KNOW that it is, you don't have enough information.
You guys have unknowingly provided me with several answers, none of them positive and none of them reflect well upon any of you. But I thank you anyway. Sorry
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
you would be amazed at just how many of mine are intentional... Oh, just for my curiosity. Could you take in the present thread one of your intentional typos, and explain why you chose to make it, knowing that nobody can distinguish with non intentional. That could help me to understand your logic that sometimes seems odd to me, but I'm probably alone with that impression. I also must confess that some of your typos make some of your sentences impossible to understand for me, since I'm not sufficiently fluent in english to always find what should have been written. Is this the origin of a part of our mutual lack of understanding ? | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You expect me to spoil my own fun for you surfeur...not a chance. The ones that I make intentionally are my own little inside jokes. Some may have figured some of them out, but they are my own little gags.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Woola: Quote:
You expect me to spoil my own fun for you surfeur...not a chance. I was ready to bet all my fortune you would not answer... How predictable... | | | | Images from movies |
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