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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The most recent update for Terminator 2 |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: (...) If we can enter it, using a standard key board, then that is what we enter (...) Yes that's how the rules are written and in my opinion rightly so. Sorry, the rules do not mention anything about a standard keyboard. The rules say: "Use the title from the front cover."But if the title is not shown on the front cover, we have to get it from a different location. And a logo/symbol is not a title. | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,917 |
| Posted: | | | | <opinion> When searching for the Batman movie previously mentioned, would a typical user enter "(-o-)" (which kinda looks like a tie-fighter)? </opinion> |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote: Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: Really? My keyboard does not have the ability to enter the Superman shield...an 'S' inside a diamond shape...so I don't see how it can be entered into the title field.
Do you know the movie Elf? Where Will Ferell is a stand-in for the L? People don't enter it as E <Will Ferrell> F or even E F. But with a shield surrounding an S it's suddenly un-enterable?
Excellent point. Should Elf be change to E F to abide strictly by the rules? Actually, Ken covered that situation in this post. Since Will Ferrel is intended to represent a character, in this case an 'L', that is what we would enter. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Blair: Quote: The rules don't make any distinction either way.
How can "T2" not be a logo yet MIB at the front of "MIB Men in Black" can be something implied as shouldn't be included just because we know the actual title of the film?
It should be one or the other, not selective if we are to follow the rule "Use the title from the front cover." Who said that 'T2' wasn't a logo? I know I didn't. What I did say was, I don't see how it matters. If the logo is the only thing that is on the front cover, as is the case with 'T2', that is what I will use as the title. If the logo and the title are on the front cover, as is the case with 'Men in Black', that is what I will use as the title. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: (...) There is nothing, in the rules, that says a title can't also be a logo. This has not to be in the rules. A logo is not a title by definition the same way a cat is not a dog. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: (...) There is nothing, in the rules, that says a title can't also be a logo. This has not to be in the rules. A logo is not a title by definition the same way a cat is not a dog. I am sorry, but that is simply your opinion...unless you can show me something that states this as a rule. Quote: Sorry, the rules do not mention anything about a standard keyboard. The rules say: "Use the title from the front cover." And I never said they did. Gerri is the one who mentioned the standard keyboard...she actually said ' normal', but that is just splitting hairs. Now, you can choose to ignore her if you want, but I won't. Quote: But if the title is not shown on the front cover, we have to get it from a different location. And a logo/symbol is not a title. To paraphrase you...sorry, the rules do not mention anything about getting the title from a different location simply because you don't believe a logo/symbol is a title. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote: Quoting Corne:
Quote: (...) ™ stands for trademark and that's certainly a symbol (...) The thing which is resembling T2 is a symbol as well. It stands for Terminator 2. Even letters are symbols I just pointed out that ™ is a symbol in terms of Unicode. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: No, a fair number of us would not like to see those changes made. Why? Because, unlike T2, your examples include the title of the release, along with the logo, on the front of the case. If they didn't, then, and only then, would I use the 'logo' as the title...making sure to put the 'actual' title in the original title field as the rules require. So you are saying: If there is a title and a logo on the cover, we take the title only. If there is only a logo but no title, we take the logo. If that logo can not be simulated with the keyboard, we take the title from a different source. This doesn't make any sense. First you state that the logo in the first category is not a title or part of the title. And then you state that the logo in the second category is the title. And in the third case the logo again is no title. IMO logos are never titles. | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: You know, as well as I do that the rules are not specific in this area...at least I hope you do. The rules tell us where to get the title, but they do not tell us what form the title should take nor do they tell us, except for a few instances, what text on the cover actually is the title...there is no way they could cover every instance, so it is as it should be.
That being the case, just like I know 'Nicole Kidman' & 'Hugh Jackman' aren't part of the title of 'Australia', I know that 'MIB' isn't part of the title for 'Men in Black'. If it were just 'MIB' on the cover, then that is what I would use, but it isn't, so I don't. Again, I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that. Exactly! And the same way I know that the T2 logo isn't part of the title. That leaves us with the same case as 'Batman' and 'Superman' with front covers without titles but logo only. We have to get the titles from a different location in those cases. |
| Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,656 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote: Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: Really? My keyboard does not have the ability to enter the Superman shield...an 'S' inside a diamond shape...so I don't see how it can be entered into the title field.
Do you know the movie Elf? Where Will Ferell is a stand-in for the L? People don't enter it as E <Will Ferrell> F or even E F. But with a shield surrounding an S it's suddenly un-enterable?
Excellent point. Should Elf be change to E F to abide strictly by the rules? Actually, Ken covered that situation in this post. Since Will Ferrel is intended to represent a character, in this case an 'L', that is what we would enter. Not authorized to view that page. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote: I realize I'm in a minority (me and Surfeur against the world?), but to me a logo is not the same as a title. And that goes for T4XI, Se7en, Thir13en Ghosts and whatever, as well as T2. (...) You and Surfeur are not alone. And I'm not sure about minority and majority in this case. |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Not authorized to view that page. This: "Wherever practical, I think a filter would be able to cut out some of the confusion. For instance, we already have "•" becomes "-". I'd love to be able to formulate a simple policy about when to use a character for symbol and when to leave it out. The key is whether a character is intended, and whether a suitable character exists. To me, I would say that the dots shown in FRIENDS are for display only and not intended as a character, whereas the "•" in WALL•E is clearly intended as a character, which by filter becomes WALL-E. The botom line is that our title rule is not intended to make the title look exactly like the title on the cover (we have cover scans for that), but to portray the title shown in standard characters." |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: Little offtopic: The film credit title is also Se7en, so you just want to ignore the filmmaker's choice and the actual data? I don't know how the film credit titles are in your other examples. But even then there's an original title field for the film credit title. I would look for some normal text, preferably a text written by the film makers, how the title is written. The credit block is a good candidate to decide the thing on the cover is a logo or a strangely spelled title. And for Seven you may actually be correct that the title is spelled 'Se7en' in normal text form by the film makers. But already 'Taxi 4' is different. |
| Registered: May 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,475 |
| Posted: | | | | One final thought.
It seems as though neither side of this discussion will be able to convince the other that their side has merit.
If this is indeed a stalemate, then the amount of time and effort spent rehashing the same thoughts using different examples seems pointless.
As such, I will bow out of further discussions on this topic. I think my time and effort is better spent updating less contentious contributions. |
| | Blair | Resistance is Futile! |
Registered: October 30, 2008 | Posts: 1,249 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: If the logo is the only thing that is on the front cover, as is the case with 'T2', that is what I will use as the title. If the logo and the title are on the front cover, as is the case with 'Men in Black', that is what I will use as the title. I can understand that, but I also see your reasoning as to why I still think my point is valid. Although I have my opinion on which is and which is not correct, I'm not trying to judge which method should be used. However, if you are able to make a choice based on information or reasoning that is not currently in the rules then obviously the rules need to be updated. Until then, though, a universal choice needs to be made and that can't be done by saying "I choose to do it this way under these circumstances but this other way under different circumstances." That's implying your own set of rules that will vary from one person to the next on which is correct. Either both 'T2' and "MIB Men in Black" should be typed in because it's what the is on the cover as the title, or "Terminator 2: Judgment Day" and "Men in Black" should be typed in because they are the actual title. | | | If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
He who MUST get the last word in on a pointless, endless argument doesn't win. It makes him the bigger jerk. | | | Last edited: by Blair |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,759 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: But there is a reason to come to that specific conslusion. The rules tell us to take the title from the front of the case, and Gerri told us, if it can be reproduce with a standard keyboard, it is what we enter. That's not what Gerri has clarified. The clarification is about a title with special characters and not about a logo. IMO apple and oranges. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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