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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Using dividers for song titles in crew contributions |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with you to a point mdnitoil... but when it comes to cast and crew that also messes with your ability to download any good updates. Which could happen at any time with new updates to the rules or program as well as uncredited, birth years or common names.
While this issue don't matter too much to me as I care very little about crew... I see the problem because of times I had to lock cast for one reason or another. | | | | Pete |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
but when it comes to cast and crew that also messes with your ability to download any good updates. Spot on! That's the problem, and that's why the "oh well, you do it your way, I'll do it mine" really doesn't belong in the on-line database. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yeah, but it's already in the online, has been for years. I could either wring my hands over the situation or simply lock my stuff and move on. I learned long ago that it was like fighting the tide and chose to move on. Now every profile I initially download gets fixed. Sometimes they're small fixes, sometimes not so small. Once you reach the point where you're fixing every profile that you see, does it really matter anymore what the extent of the fixes are? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sure it matters... some of us do care. If we didn't... not only would we have to fix each one when we download it. But also fix every one with every update that is needed. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
but when it comes to cast and crew that also messes with your ability to download any good updates.
Spot on! That's the problem, and that's why the "oh well, you do it your way, I'll do it mine" really doesn't belong in the on-line database. That's true - but why do you feel an overwhelming urge for it to be your (general) way? For example, why did you state earlier that this profile needed to be fixed where it's clear in this and the earlier thread that both sides have valid arguments that can't be settled by the rules? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | This argument just goes directly back to TWO issues. Beginning with since the Online serves ALL users limiting data should never be mentioned or discussed. For example, do i care what the bitrate is of any particular film, not really, I use it as a factor in determining what I think of a given re-release against the Original, but I don't need a permanent record of it, but some DO want it. Fine by me. So the only answer to theses issues is still Open credits, list what we see, as much as we want or NOT, coupled with the ability to accept data in highly specific terms for a given update. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
but why do you feel an overwhelming urge for it to be your (general) way? Not so much mine - I'm just going by (a) what the majority wants - see the poll I linked to earlier - and (b) by what I feel the rules tell us to do. Quote:
For example, why did you state earlier that this profile needed to be fixed where it's clear in this and the earlier thread that both sides have valid arguments that can't be settled by the rules? I haven't seen any valid arguments for "the other side". Those who want this have come up with nothing else than "but it adds context" - completely ignoring the simple fact that we don't track any such additional context for any other crew credit. But there's the fact that a song title just isn't a group, that a single song writer isn't a "logical grouping" either, and that the rules never even so much hint at this entire concept. Additionally, we'd need standards for how to abbreviate when there isn't enough room, and maybe even standards on formatting and capitalisation of this data - all things everyone can do as he prefers as long as it's safely in the non-contributable "custom crew" field where it belongs. Again, I'm just trying to follow the rules. And data that doesn't follow the rules needs to be fixed. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
This argument just goes directly back to TWO issues. Beginning with since the Online serves ALL users limiting data should never be mentioned or discussed. For example, do i care what the bitrate is of any particular film, not really, I use it as a factor in determining what I think of a given re-release against the Original, but I don't need a permanent record of it, but some DO want it. Fine by me. So the only answer to theses issues is still Open credits, list what we see, as much as we want or NOT, coupled with the ability to accept data in highly specific terms for a given update. That's my opinion exactly. The more data, the better. I could care less about the sound department in crew, but I am glad it is there for those that do. I, for one, would love to see more disc-specific features, like the number of chapters, disc size (i.e. 5.32GB), etc. The more info we can available for the users, the more users that the program will likely attract. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | @ Tim,
In your opinion a song title isn't a group, in my opinion it is.
You argue against single songwriter credits being classed as a group, but we already allow single "groups" for visual effects (and not just when a company name is involved).
The rules don't give any real guidance as to what is or isn't a "logical grouping" and that's where the problem is, as we're all using our own ideas of what we think it is.
Also, I don't understand what you mean about ignoring additional context in other credits. If I see a group heading in any area, I use it. I'd be interested to hear what context you think is being ignored. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
we already allow single "groups" for visual effects (and not just when a company name is involved). As for the bolded (by me) part: no, we do not allow that at all. In those cases, we'd store a generic "visual effects" credit in the online database, and those who are interested, have the ability to use the custom crew field to specify any further context. Quote:
I'd be interested to hear what context you think is being ignored. We've been over all this ten times now, do we really need to do it again? Can't you just read the thread from the start, or the previous one? I can repeat it all again, but I doubt we're going to get any new insights. Okay then, I'll repeat one bit of the basics once more: Quoting myself: Quote:
This is exactly why we have the custom crew role field: we can track additional details like this locally, but they're never part of the online database. We store a generic "original material by" credit in the online database, and those who are interested, have the ability to use the custom crew field to specify exactly what that "original material" is. We store a generic "make-up artist" credit in the online database, and those who are interested, have the ability to use the custom crew field to specify whose make-up artist it is. And similarly, I say we store a generic "song writer" credit in the online database, and those who are interested, have the ability to use the custom crew field to specify what that song is. And so on. We already have a field in which to store this information, and I really wouldn't want to use dividers for ALL of these examples, and probably more. In the end, we'll be preceding just about EVERY crew credit with a divider containing the "additional context" that really only belongs in the custom crew role field. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, that's what you do, not what we do. If an "original material by" credit justifies a group divider it gets one, same with make-up or any other crew section. If I see a logical grouping in the credits, I'll use it. The credit I see goes in the custom crew field, the heading that credit is under goes in a divider. And personally, I don't appreciate the attitude thank you very much.  |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
If an "original material by" credit justifies a group divider it gets one, same with make-up or any other crew section. I sincerely hope we're not going down this road...  Quote:
And personally, I don't appreciate the attitude thank you very much. What?! The only attitude that you're getting from me is that I don't appreciate the fact that we keep going around in circles, and that I feel it's pointless to keep saying the same things to each other without any kind of progress. This entire thread already is a painting-by-numbers facsimile of the previous one, and now we're even into repeating posts from the same thread. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the point - thank you very much. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I seriously believe the only true progress would have to come from Ken and/or Gerri. And then you will still get some to argue even then at times. | | | | Pete |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I seriously believe the only true progress would have to come from Ken and/or Gerri. Let's have some of that, then!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
@ Tim,
In your opinion a song title isn't a group, in my opinion it is.
You argue against single songwriter credits being classed as a group, but we already allow single "groups" for visual effects (and not just when a company name is involved). This is the second time somebody has said this, I don't remember who said it the last time, but I have yet to see this. The only time I have seen VFX people under a divider is when they were preceded by a company name. Now that I think about it, I can't even imagine a situation where this would happen. If there is a single VFX guy, and no company name, what is being put into the divider?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Indeed! And what they're putting in it? Just as with the "song writer" thing and all other examples: additional context that really belongs in the "custom crew role" field only. Again: this is what it leads to - pretty soon everything that belongs in the "custom crew role" field is going to be put into a divider instead, claiming that "it adds context". Sure it does, but it's what we have the "custom crew role" field for. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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