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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 5 6 7 8 9 ...12  Previous   Next
Is common sense a valid source?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTelecine
Regd: January 22, 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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A few thoughts to start some discussion:

What if the following were true:

A Movie is Unique
A MOVIE can have one or many titles
A Person is Unique
A Person can have one or many Credited or Uncredited (supported by documentation) Roles (Cast or Crew) in a Movie Title

To make the Person Entity Unique we are going to need some extra data about a Person for example:

1  FAMILY NAME                            (CHAR)       
      The surname or family name of the person
  2  GIVEN NAME                              (CHAR)       
      The  initials, first name or full given/Christian names
      of the person.
  3  DATE OF BIRTH                          (DATE)       
      Date of birth of the person.
  4  DATE OF DEATH                          (DATE)       
      Date of death of the person.
  5  GENDER                                  (CHAR)       
      Standard  Gender  or  sex of the person  classification
      codes. :

•    F    Female
•    M    Male
•    O    Other
•    U    Unknown

  6  COUNTRY OF BIRTH                        (CHAR)       
      Uses  standard  Country  code. Examples include:

•    A    Australia
•    AF  Afganistan
•    AFRI Other African
•    AG  Argentina
•    ALB  Albania
•    AMER Other America
•    AR  United Arab Emirates    etc.

  7  MARITAL STATUS                          (CHAR)       
      Uses  standard Marital Status code. Examples include:

•    D    Divorced
•    F    In a Defacto relationship
•    M    Married
•    M/D  Married or in a Defacto relationship
•    NEV  Never Married
•    SEP  Separated
•    U    Unknown
•    UNM  Unmapped value

We can then use a Person matching algorithm to link. It would need to use a probability rating and if the threshold was not met, require documentation to create a match.
 Last edited: by Telecine
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantjgilligan
Got PEZ?
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Real ping-pong wars haven't happened since the introduction of the voting system. IMHO, it's a complete non-issue.


I agree.  I haven't seen any significant ping-pong in quite a few years.  Now... we have seen an dramatic increase in heated discussions on the Contribution forum.  Interesting trade off.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Real ping-pong wars haven't happened since the introduction of the voting system. IMHO, it's a complete non-issue.

LOL, then you aren't paying attention.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
A few thoughts to start some discussion:

What if the following were true:

A Movie is Unique
A MOVIE can have one or many titles
A Person is Unique
A Person can have one or many Credited or Uncredited (supported by documentation) Roles (Cast or Crew) in a Movie Title

To make the Person Entity Unique we are going to need some extra data about a Person for example:

1  FAMILY NAME                            (CHAR)       
      The surname or family name of the person
  2  GIVEN NAME                              (CHAR)       
      The  initials, first name or full given/Christian names
      of the person.
  3  DATE OF BIRTH                          (DATE)       
      Date of birth of the person.
  4  DATE OF DEATH                          (DATE)       
      Date of death of the person.
  5  GENDER                                  (CHAR)       
      Standard  Gender  or  sex of the person  classification
      codes. :

•    F    Female
•    M    Male
•    O    Other
•    U    Unknown

  6  COUNTRY OF BIRTH                        (CHAR)       
      Uses  standard  Country  code. Examples include:

•    A    Australia
•    AF  Afganistan
•    AFRI Other African
•    AG  Argentina
•    ALB  Albania
•    AMER Other America
•    AR  United Arab Emirates    etc.

  7  MARITAL STATUS                          (CHAR)       
      Uses  standard Marital Status code. Examples include:

•    D    Divorced
•    F    In a Defacto relationship
•    M    Married
•    M/D  Married or in a Defacto relationship
•    NEV  Never Married
•    SEP  Separated
•    U    Unknown
•    UNM  Unmapped value

We can then use a Person matching algorithm to link. It would need to use a probability rating and if the threshold was not met, require documentation to create a match.


Are you crazy? I know i am, so I have an excuse. But since when did we become an arm of "government" . Are we going to start sending out cards and request that they fill in all the data. Are you sure you don't want their address, phone numbers  and particulars on spouse, children. and Parents as well. Then Ken can create Family Tree Profiler and we can all trip off to the funny farm together. That is quite likely the most bizarre thing I have ever seen here abouts. Well meaning...but bizarre.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDarklyNoon
No Godz, No Masterz
Registered: May 8, 2007
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First I also have seen not much ping-pong wars lately
Actually none at all and I have a huge collection of DVds and Blu-rays . so I am used to vote alot

Telecine; this seems to be a very good idea in my opinion.
What I would not do, is the MARITAL STATUS, changes too often, is too much of a hassle to track this all the time.


Ogtherwise, a very nice approach!

cheers
Donnie
www.tvmaze.com
 Last edited: by DarklyNoon
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTelecine
Regd: January 22, 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Australia Posts: 820
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:


Are you crazy? I know i am, so I have an excuse. But since when did we become an arm of "government" . Are we going to start sending out cards and request that they fill in all the data. Are you sure you don't want their address, phone numbers  and particulars on spouse, children. and Parents as well. Then Ken can create Family Tree Profiler and we can all trip off to the funny farm together. That is quite likely the most bizarre thing I have ever seen here abouts. Well meaning...but bizarre.

Skip


No I am not crazy. You see the problem is that we don't have a person based model. We have a DVD based model. At the rate that we are going we will end up with huge number of unlinked people in the cast table and a very large number of unlinked people in the crew table.

In addition, every movie will have seperate set of credits and we will continue to profile the same cast and crew over and over again without any links between the movies.

In my view, the Common Name approach is just a workaround for a fundamental design problem.

We are better off putting our effort into uniquely identifying people and linking them and linking movies than we are spending our time trying to find common names and still having no links between cast and crew and between movies.

It is nothing like family tree profiler and is a widely implemented solution for this problem in databases all over the world.
 Last edited: by Telecine
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTelecine
Regd: January 22, 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Australia Posts: 820
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Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
First I also have seen not much ping-pong wars lately
Actually none at all and I have a huge collection of DVds and Blu-rays . so I am used to vote alot

Telecine; this seems to be a very good idea in my opinion.
What I would not do, is the MARITAL STATUS, changes too often, is too much of a hassle to track this all the time.


Ogtherwise, a very nice approach!

cheers
Donnie


Thanks.

I would happily dump Marital Status.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Telecine:

The problem is the data list you talk about. I'll give you a couple of specifics. for Al Overton, Sr 1912-1985, Country maybe Eng, based on membership in BFI. Al Overton, Jr. NOTHING the only thing that is available is his name and a filmography that I have cross-checked three ways from Sunday, I can't even tell you for certain that Sr. is his father, I presume that to be the case.

Many, many times especially with Crew and Second and Third tier actors, the data is going to spartan at best

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTelecine
Regd: January 22, 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Australia Posts: 820
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Telecine:

The problem is the data list you talk about. I'll give you a couple of specifics. for Al Overton, Sr 1912-1985, Country maybe Eng, based on membership in BFI. Al Overton, Jr. NOTHING the only thing that is available is his name and a filmography that I have cross-checked three ways from Sunday, I can't even tell you for certain that Sr. is his father, I presume that to be the case.

Many, many times especially with Crew and Second and Third tier actors, the data is going to spartan at best

Skip


That might be so but that is why I said that links could be created by other supporting documentation if thresholds were not met for matching. If people could spend their time researching supporting data to create a link rather than profiling movies that have already been profiled dozens of times, we could get through the work a lot quicker. Remember that the current system assumes that John Smith = John Smith unless you diferentiate the two with other supporting data like BY.
 Last edited: by Telecine
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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OK, I will take exception to one of your comments. You claim that a Movie is Unique, the BEST that can be said is that a DVD is Unique. We have already proven that Movies themselves are not necessarily unique. Release A may not in many cases contain precisely the same data as release B. How you define release is actually irelevant to this, it could be Release A in Region 1 US versus Release B in Region 2 France or Releases A  versus Release B SE.

This why cloning of data ortrying to set up a single profile for a title is so dangerous because they are not unique.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting jgilligan:
Quote:
I agree.  I haven't seen any significant ping-pong in quite a few years.  Now... we have seen an dramatic increase in heated discussions on the Contribution forum.  Interesting trade off.

I guess it is a matter of perspective.  In my opinion, the number of heated discussions has remained fairly constant in the time I have been here.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
OK, I will take exception to one of your comments. You claim that a Movie is Unique, the BEST that can be said is that a DVD is Unique. We have already proven that Movies themselves are not necessarily unique. Release A may not in many cases contain precisely the same data as release B. How you define release is actually irelevant to this, it could be Release A in Region 1 US versus Release B in Region 2 France or Releases A  versus Release B SE.

This why cloning of data ortrying to set up a single profile for a title is so dangerous because they are not unique.

Skip

But Skip, that's a rare exception.  How often does that happen where cast/crew data differs for the same movie in a different DVD release?  I would venture way, way less than 1 in a hundred, perhaps 1 in a thousand.  What would you rather have? 100 wrong DVD profile that needs changing or 1 extraordinary profile that needs tweaking?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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xradman:

That one I can't answer. What I can tell you is that a year ago, I thought that was a reasonable and launched an experiment requesting the assistance of others internationally to help try to wrestle the CLT under control. It took less than a week to run across then first such occurrence, my conclusion is that it is far more frequent than we might reasonably believe. I was surprised, and disappointed because it meant we could not try that to bring the CLT into line, but the data for films is not necessarily unique for any given release across any given Region or one release to the next.

<shrugs>

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
But Skip, that's a rare exception.  How often does that happen where cast/crew data differs for the same movie in a different DVD release?  I would venture way, way less than 1 in a hundred, perhaps 1 in a thousand.  What would you rather have? 100 wrong DVD profile that needs changing or 1 extraordinary profile that needs tweaking?

Unless Berak is lying in his goodbye post, it happens more often than you think.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
How often does that happen where cast/crew data differs for the same movie in a different DVD release?  I would venture way, way less than 1 in a hundred, perhaps 1 in a thousand.

It is, indeed, quite a lot closer to 1 in a thousand: it's extremely rare. With the exception of animated films with extended credits to include the local voice actors, I don't believe we've managed to find even so much as 10 examples in the eight-and-a-half years I've been here. More like four. It works wonders to rack up the paranoia, of course, not at all unlike the much-publicized fear for ping-pong wars, but it's really extremely, extremely rare.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
But Skip, that's a rare exception.  How often does that happen where cast/crew data differs for the same movie in a different DVD release?  I would venture way, way less than 1 in a hundred, perhaps 1 in a thousand.  What would you rather have? 100 wrong DVD profile that needs changing or 1 extraordinary profile that needs tweaking?

Unless Berak is lying in his goodbye post, it happens more often than you think.

Unless he is counting different voice actors for anime/cartoons, I don't think it's all that common.  About the only movie that I can think of at the moment is Jet Li's Fearless where the International cut deleted the entire segment with Michelle Yeoh that was in the Chinese/HK cut.  I don't know whether in that case, they changed the credit roll at the end to delete Ms. Yeoh from the International version of the movie.
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