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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Capitalization (my bad) |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
OK, in that specific case, I would enter 'k. d. lang' with that capitalisation, knowing that other film credits could as well influence the common name including capitalisation of this person. The suggested 'K. D. Lang' credited as 'k. d. lang' only works locally as T!M has already explained. IMO the common name of a person may be capitalised in all lower case, if (and only if) this is the case in most of his film credits. And credits where the whole credit role is in lower case would not count as such. For english names, meaning those that are always converted on a one to one basis, capitalization does not influence the common name. This only becomes an issue whith names that include an accent in the lowercase form. Yes, I know the arguement...both É and E exist, so the film makers had a choice. Well, that sounds reasonable, but it ignores the fact that this wasn't always the case so the film makers, while they do have a choice now, didn't always. Please note, the second part wasn't aimed at you RHo. It was just a general statement.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
For english names, meaning those that are always converted on a one to one basis, capitalization does not influence the common name. I know that the CLT does ignore capitalisation. But since the local database can only store one capitalisation variant per name, capitalisation does influence the common name. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Maybe I am misunderstanding you. As I understand the 'common name', it is used only to link actors, with differing credited names, to one single name. Since you can only have one capitalization variant, it is automatically the common name and will remain so, no matter what you download, until you decide to change it.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
(...) Since you can only have one capitalization variant, it is automatically the common name (...) Exactly! And therefore it should be the one with the most common capitalisation. |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
(...) Since you can only have one capitalization variant, it is automatically the common name (...)
Exactly! And therefore it should be the one with the most common capitalisation. It should indeed, but unless we actually track what the most common capitalisation is, we have no way of knowing what it is. And that's what's happening now. Of course we know the proper (and most-common) capitalisation for a few convenient A-lister examples like Danny DeVito, but we don't know it for thousands of virtual unknowns. And since we're allowed to submit these names however we like, the entries in the database no longer help us in determining what the most common capitalisation is. As it stands, the only way to find that out is to verify all the person's credits yourself... All in all, it seems to be a lost cause. The only good news is that we can all individually choose what we feel is the "proper" capitalisation for every single name out there - doesn't matter how we reach that decision - and we can all submit it as such. Of course there are many disagreements, and it has led to ping-ponging, but per Invelos, they're all equally valid, and nobody can ever get it "wrong". |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Should we really track the most common capitalisation? Without any kind of third party data, it would be very often ALL CAPS.
Perhaps I'm a minority, but I think the current way is not the worst. How should we define a correct capitalisation? How a most common capitalisation? (By the numbers of titles/profiles in database, which are based just on the opinions/votings of the users that own this profile?)
I'm happy with the current solution, even if it is always local work. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
unless we actually track what the most common capitalisation is, we have no way of knowing what it is. And that's what's happening now....
All in all, it seems to be a lost cause. If only it were a lost topic...  --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Should we really track the most common capitalisation? No. The purpose of the common name is to provide for linking. The current system is designed to provide linking capability to every user regardless of their local capitalization choices. If you contribute capitalization differences, your changes have no effect on any of the users who use a different capitalization variant in their local dbs. After all of the voting and evaluating, the end users get notified of an "update". If they try to apply the update, their data will not change. It seems like a waste of time and effort to me. It would be great if the contribution system ignored attempts by users to change capitalization so we don't go through this useless process (and also so contributors of other cast and crew changes don't have to change their data to match the online capitalization so they don't appear to want to change capitalization). | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
It would be great if the contribution system ignored attempts by users to change capitalization so we don't go through this useless process (and also so contributors of other cast and crew changes don't have to change their data to match the online capitalization so they don't appear to want to change capitalization). Exactly! Which is why I said the same thing back on page #2. Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
I'm happy with the current solution, even if it is always local work. Same here: it lets me deal with this however I choose to deal with this - entirely by my own standards and nothing else - while not hurting the ability to contribute my data. So while it works for me, I just don't entirely understand Invelos's approach to these matters. Oh well. Quoting scotthm: Quote:
If only it were a lost topic... Indeed.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Exactly! And therefore it should be the one with the most common capitalisation.
It should indeed, but unless we actually track what the most common capitalisation is, we have no way of knowing what it is. And that's what's happening now. Of course we know the proper (and most-common) capitalisation for a few convenient A-lister examples like Danny DeVito, but we don't know it for thousands of virtual unknowns. And since we're allowed to submit these names however we like, the entries in the database no longer help us in determining what the most common capitalisation is. As it stands, the only way to find that out is to verify all the person's credits yourself... Unfortunately, you are right. Quote:
All in all, it seems to be a lost cause. The only good news is that we can all individually choose what we feel is the "proper" capitalisation for every single name out there - doesn't matter how we reach that decision - and we can all submit it as such. Of course there are many disagreements, and it has led to ping-ponging, but per Invelos, they're all equally valid, and nobody can ever get it "wrong". I don't want to choose (or correct) manually the capitalisation for every person in my local database. That somehow lowers the advantage of downloading profiles. The more we are forced to enter the data ourselves, the less advantage has profiler over any other database solution (e.g. access). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Should we really track the most common capitalisation? Without any kind of third party data, it would be very often ALL CAPS. Of course, I'm talking about the most common capitalisation after the application of all capitalisation changes defines by the rules. For example DANNY DEVITO and Dany Devito would count as Danny Devito whereas DANNY DeVITO and Danny DeVito would count as Danny DeVito. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
It would be great if the contribution system ignored attempts by users to change capitalization so we don't go through this useless process (and also so contributors of other cast and crew changes don't have to change their data to match the online capitalization so they don't appear to want to change capitalization). This would lead to the situation that a real capitalisation error, which got into the online database by chance, could not be corrected any more (e.g. Danny DevIto). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
It would be great if the contribution system ignored attempts by users to change capitalization so we don't go through this useless process (and also so contributors of other cast and crew changes don't have to change their data to match the online capitalization so they don't appear to want to change capitalization).
This would lead to the situation that a real capitalisation error, which got into the online database by chance, could not be corrected any more (e.g. Danny DevIto). Perhaps a check box like we have with BY's and uncredited where we are asked to confirm that we wish to contribute the capitalization change. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Should we really track the most common capitalisation? Without any kind of third party data, it would be very often ALL CAPS.
Of course, I'm talking about the most common capitalisation after the application of all capitalisation changes defines by the rules. For example DANNY DEVITO and Dany Devito would count as Danny Devito whereas DANNY DeVITO and Danny DeVito would count as Danny DeVito. What's interesting about this example is that the filmmaker has changed the "E" in DeVITO to a lower case, and that prompts us to retain the "V" in DeVito as uppercase! I am totally bewildered by this obsession over capitalization which has zero impact on the functionality of the program!  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I am totally bewildered by this obsession... I thought obsession was what this whole place was about... SDLinkHDLink--------------- |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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