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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Another title question: I Spy |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Would DVD's like "Se7en" need to be retitled, the credit block reads "Seven". The cover technically is nothing more than graphics.
Yes, while my copy does not have a credit block, the overview spells the title as "Seven" which would be the preferred title IMO. So now we can throw in the Overview to help determine the title? How about just typing what you see on the front cover? | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
How about just typing what you see on the front cover? That would be seductive. Unfortunately cover artists and marketing people tend to convert the title into some graphical art which is not text only and can't be entered unambiguously into a text field. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
How about just typing what you see on the front cover?
That would be seductive. Unfortunately cover artists and marketing people tend to convert the title into some graphical art which is not text only and can't be entered unambiguously into a text field. I've been doing this for almost ten years now, and I can honestly say, I've never not been able to figure out how to enter a title. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
How about just typing what you see on the front cover?
That would be seductive. Unfortunately cover artists and marketing people tend to convert the title into some graphical art which is not text only and can't be entered unambiguously into a text field.
I've been doing this for almost ten years now, and I can honestly say, I've never not been able to figure out how to enter a title. Yes, a single person can do this. But as you yourself have stated, a group of people do not agree whether they see a hyphen, dash, or something else in the graphics. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'd really like to know how, in the current title under discussion, it can be concluded that there is a "graphic" between "I" and "Spy". There is absolutely nothing "graphical" about it.
Any more than there is anything "graphical" about "7" in the title Se7en. It is quite clearly the arabic numeral "7"; not a graphical representation of anything else. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
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The credit block tells us what's graphical sugar and what's text. And yes, we should ignore all graphical sugar IMO.
If we do that, then the title 'I Heart Huckabees' becomes 'I Huckabees'.
Is that what you really want? 
How's that? What's in the credit block of that film? You stated that we should use the credit block to determine when we "should ignore graphical sugar". If I ignore the "graphical sugar", I see 'I Huckabees". Entering 'I Heart Huckabees" would not be ignoring the "graphical sugar", it would be interpreting it. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I'd really like to know how, in the current title under discussion, it can be concluded that there is a "graphic" between "I" and "Spy". There is absolutely nothing "graphical" about it. The square is nor wide enough to be a hyphen or dash. The square could be a symbol (although a strange one) or some graphics similar to the dots in 'friends'. Therefore we have to consult the credit block under the current rule which leads to 'I Spy'. Quote:
Any more than there is anything "graphical" about "7" in the title Se7en. It is quite clearly the arabic numeral "7"; not a graphical representation of anything else. There is no question that the title for most releases is 'Se7en' according to the current rules. But if the rules would tell us to consult some normal text from the film makers for the title, it may become 'Seven'. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can agree to typing what is on the cover, but the rules do not allow us to do that.
If I have to look other places to determine whether a "." is a ".", then that blows it right out of the water. I liked "If you can type it from a standard keyboard (lower ascii), then use it".
The latest issue of the rules doesn't say that. Now we must determine first if it is graphics or not, then look elsewhere for the title. Then we get into arguments like this one, is it a "-" or is it a "whatever you want to call it". If it is a "-", then is it a symbol or should it be considered a standard character. Lets reference the credit block, wait no credit block, let's reference the film. Maybe the DVD title is different than the movie title, better look at the Overview, or the promotional site.
It goes on and on.....
Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
The credit block tells us what's graphical sugar and what's text. And yes, we should ignore all graphical sugar IMO.
If we do that, then the title 'I Heart Huckabees' becomes 'I Huckabees'.
Is that what you really want?
How's that? What's in the credit block of that film?
You stated that we should use the credit block to determine when we "should ignore graphical sugar". If I ignore the "graphical sugar", I see 'I Huckabees".
Entering 'I Heart Huckabees" would not be ignoring the "graphical sugar", it would be interpreting it. No, you missunderstood. The credit block, as it is in text form, has no graphical sugar by definition. Therefore if the credit block says 'I (heart-symbol) Huckabees', the heart-symbol is not graphical sugar but part of the text title. Since it can't be entered as is into the title field for technical reasons, it has to be converted somehow. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unfortunately, the credit block says "I "heartsymbol" Huckabees"
Charlie | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
The credit block tells us what's graphical sugar and what's text. And yes, we should ignore all graphical sugar IMO.
If we do that, then the title 'I Heart Huckabees' becomes 'I Huckabees'.
Is that what you really want?
How's that? What's in the credit block of that film?
You stated that we should use the credit block to determine when we "should ignore graphical sugar". If I ignore the "graphical sugar", I see 'I Huckabees".
Entering 'I Heart Huckabees" would not be ignoring the "graphical sugar", it would be interpreting it.
No, you missunderstood. The credit block, as it is in text form, has no graphical sugar by definition. Therefore if the credit block says 'I (heart-symbol) Huckabees', the heart-symbol is not graphical sugar but part of the text title. Since it can't be entered as is into the title field for technical reasons, it has to be converted somehow. But the current Rule does not say to enter what is in the credit block, it only says: "Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"". It may be splitting hairs, but it does not say you can convert the symbol into multiple characters; e.g. "heart". | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Unfortunately, the credit block says "I "heartsymbol" Huckabees"
Charlie As explained, the heart-character in the credit block would have to be entered (converted as long as profiler does not support this symbol) as the credit block defines this character as part of the title in text form. That's why we consult the credit block in the first place. Characters in the credit block are part of the title, whereas symbols or graphics showing only in graphical form (cover) and not in the credit block are graphical sugar. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
But the current Rule does not say to enter what is in the credit block, it only says: "Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"".
It may be splitting hairs, but it does not say you can convert the symbol into multiple characters; e.g. "heart". I ignore your hair splitting. Yes the rules tell us to convert the heart-symbol. And I would say that multiple characters are allowed, if a single character is not possible. If you really want to split hairs, you still could use 'I * Huckabees' or 'I ? Huckabees'. 'I Huckabees' would definitely not be an option. | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | What a fun thread. Page 5 seems like a good jumping  in point.  Here's an enlarged image of the questionable item:  Removed from the cover, as I've shown here, do the hyphen-advocates still see a hyphen? It appears to me to be a quadrilateral with sides of equal length, otherwise known as a rhombus (or diamond). A hyphen is a line. A hyphen is not a square or a rhombus. From charmap: U+002D "Hyphen Minus"  U+2666 "Diamond"  U+25A0 "Black Square"  Since the questionable item more closely resembles either the or the (it could be an italicized square  ), I believe this triggers this rule: (quoted frequently already) "For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"" A consultation of the back cover reveals no or between I and Spy, nor does it reveal a . Since there's nothing there to "exclude or convert", I would go with: Title: I Spy Original Title: [blank] | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Since the entire title is slanted to the right, I went with an italicized square. Other than that, how you explained it was my thinking exactly...though pictures always help.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
I'd really like to know how, in the current title under discussion, it can be concluded that there is a "graphic" between "I" and "Spy". There is absolutely nothing "graphical" about it.
Any more than there is anything "graphical" about "7" in the title Se7en. It is quite clearly the arabic numeral "7"; not a graphical representation of anything else. The poll is 50-50, so clearly it is not as cut and dry for everybody as it is for yourself. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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