Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 3 4 5 6 7  Previous   Next
Media company question
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting lyonsden5:
Quote:
Do you guys not see the problem here? This field is messed up! OK, maybe I'm just figuring that out but it doesn't make it any less so.

X is correct according to the rules but you really need to use X's logo to get the true company, unless of course you are in Europe, then you can use X.

It would really be good for Ken to step in and give us some official input here. I hope he's sitting on a rooftop somewhere, watching...

I agree that it's being made a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Users should be able to look at the back of the box and list what they see without knowing who owns who or who's just a name and not a company and who's a real publisher in the distributor sense of the word and who's technically a media company but not exactly a publisher. Too much! Keep it simple.

The reason it is difficult and will remain so, James is failure to create a cohesive definition of what is desired. Buzzwords and terms are thrown around which are not applicable to DVDS, like PUBLISHER. I do not and will not use anything but the distributor 95% of the time, the few lone exceptions would be when  athird party enters the picture, such as Criterion or even TCFHE which currently is the Distributor for much of the MGMHE catalog. But most of the time there nothing that is definable.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,723
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Keep it simple.

The sad thing is that we actually had a simple way of dealing with this - simply tracking the DVD distributor and nothing else. Unfortunately, just a few extremely vocal users have succeeded in messing this up beyond repair, meaning the field is now open for just about anything: not only have I seen packaging design companies entered, but also authoring houses, copyright holders, license holders, names of TV stations who at one point in time have been airing a show whose logo is splattered somewhere on the cover, parent companies like the Warner Bros. Entertainment<->Warner Home Video debacle that started this thread, and many others. Heck: I've even seen "Macrovision" being entered as a media company, and also a company name that was credited for providing the film's summary that was used as an overview on the back cover. Under the current rules, basically anything goes, and that's why I thoroughly dislike the field. I was against the move away from tracking the distributor only right from the start, and I still am.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Keep it simple.

The sad thing is that we actually had a simple way of dealing with this - simply tracking the DVD distributor and nothing else. Unfortunately, just a few extremely vocal users have succeeded in messing this up beyond repair, meaning the field is now open for just about anything: not only have I seen packaging design companies entered, but also authoring houses, copyright holders, license holders, names of TV stations who at one point in time have been airing a show whose logo is splattered somewhere on the cover, parent companies like the Warner Bros. Entertainment<->Warner Home Video debacle that started this thread, and many others. Heck: I've even seen "Macrovision" being entered as a media company, and also a company name that was credited for providing the film's summary that was used as an overview on the back cover. Under the current rules, basically anything goes, and that's why I thoroughly dislike the field. I was against the move away from tracking the distributor only right from the start, and I still am.

Not beyond repair, Tim. Simply go back to the Distributor and move the other two fields up to Production where there is defintely well-defined data which can be added, OR make the last two MCs LOCAL only . Like the "new" Custom Genre fields. Even for the 5% where a second MC can be sorted out, like Criterions or some TCFHE titles. , I would still have no problem with just using the Distributor. This is why sometimes the Lone dissenter or the few have more important thoguhts than a vocal majority, this has been proven timer and time again here, especially in cases where the vocal majority wants to make a change and wind up confusing issues simply because they DON'T like valid data. It happens and every time it does, it weakens the database.

And I am with you, this was a bad move like several that have been made.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
The program just had a new release and there's this new Media Publisher rule that's 5 days old. I doubt that we'll have a re-release of the program any time soon that will reverse everything to what some wish it to be. Let's deal with the program as-is and the rule that we have. It's possible the rule will be clarified. I could see that happening a whole lot sooner than revamping a new release.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
The program just had a new release and there's this new Media Publisher rule that's 5 days old. I doubt that we'll have a re-release of the program any time soon that will reverse everything to what some wish it to be. Let's deal with the program as-is and the rule that we have. It's possible the rule will be clarified. I could see that happening a whole lot sooner than revamping a new release.

The Rules doesn't comply with your image though James as i have spelled out. You are trying to give a different meaning to "usually", you are applying only the Copyright date as a discriminator, and there is more Copyright data THERE that you are completely ignoring, are we deigning again.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
The Rules doesn't comply with your image though James as i have spelled out. You are trying to give a different meaning to "usually", you are applying only the Copyright date as a discriminator, and there is more Copyright data THERE that you are completely ignoring, are we deigning again.

Usually means customary, meaning that's where it should be found. TheMadMartian says "in fact, in the vast majority of cases, it isn't going to be there." That's the opposite of "usually". I don't think I'm the one giving "a different meaning to 'usually'".
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Not all, I see a lot of Copyright information on that cover as I detailed, James and none of it really fit. We aren't profiling Art and Package Design...yet and, based on Copyright you are being selective in what YOU consider to be consistent with the rules, which means you are being inconsistent in application of the rule. If Copyright is your criteria....

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 3,004
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
What's the justification for distributor? Who made the software on the disc is both easier to determine and more useful than who shipped the disc to the store.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
tonight's the night...
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 3,480
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
Not all, I see a lot of Copyright information on that cover as I detailed, James and none of it really fit. We aren't profiling Art and Package Design...yet and, based on Copyright you are being selective in what YOU consider to be consistent with the rules, which means you are being inconsistent in application of the rule. If Copyright is your criteria....

Skip

How am I being inconsistent? The rule says "These are usually found (dated with the year of the DVD release) on the back of the box." I see the year; I see the company name. How is that selective on my part? How is that inconsistent? You and others are telling me to disregard what I see and to look for what "really fits" and you tell me what "we aren't profiling". I'm not the one being selective and inconsistent here. I'm trying to follow the rule and you and others are telling me what it "really" should be in spite of the rule. It really seems like you and others want this to be distributor only and you are disregarding what the rule says in order to get the data you want to be there.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,723
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Who made the software on the disc is both easier to determine [...]

It clearly isn't...     

Quote:
and more useful than who shipped the disc to the store.

Not to me. To each his own, of course, and if the rules properly explain what media companies are and in what order to enter (meaning I can profile and contribute them in a consistent manner, without having to worry about no-votes from people claiming "this is not a media company", or others wanting to re-order them), then I have no problem in tracking additional "media companies" in addition to the distributor. But it cannot be properly defined what goes into the field and in what order, then I don't understand how it can be a contributable field.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
What's the justification for distributor? Who made the software on the disc is both easier to determine and more useful than who shipped the disc to the store.

I repeat to YOU, maybe and to YOU it may be useful. but you don't speak for me and there are many others who you don't speak for as well, so please stop making what sound like statements of fact that are NOT Fact. You only represent YOURSELF.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Who made the software on the disc is both easier to determine [...]

It clearly isn't...     

Quote:
and more useful than who shipped the disc to the store.

Not to me. To each his own, of course, and if the rules properly explain what media companies are and in what order to enter (meaning I can profile and contribute them in a consistent manner, without having to worry about no-votes from people claiming "this is not a media company", or others wanting to re-order them), then I have no problem in tracking additional "media companies" in addition to the distributor. But it cannot be properly defined what goes into the field and in what order, then I don't understand how it can be a contributable field.

ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,850
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
Who made the software on the disc is ...more useful than who shipped the disc to the store.

Not to me.

I suppose next you'll want to track whether it's UPS or FedEx who dropped off the box. 

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
ROFLMAO

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
I agree that it's being made a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Users should be able to look at the back of the box and list what they see without knowing who owns who or who's just a name and not a company and who's a real publisher in the distributor sense of the word and who's technically a media company but not exactly a publisher. Too much! Keep it simple.

Wow, only one page.  I am so relieved. 

As to your post, it isn't being made a lot more difficult, it actually is that difficult.  If we want data that is accurate and correct, which I do, then you can't simply copy what you see.  You have to know what it is you are entering.  If all we want is a list of company names then, yes, we can keep it simple.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
The Rules doesn't comply with your image though James as i have spelled out. You are trying to give a different meaning to "usually", you are applying only the Copyright date as a discriminator, and there is more Copyright data THERE that you are completely ignoring, are we deigning again.

Usually means customary, meaning that's where it should be found. TheMadMartian says "in fact, in the vast majority of cases, it isn't going to be there." That's the opposite of "usually". I don't think I'm the one giving "a different meaning to 'usually'".

Wait just a minute, I am not giving a different meaning to 'usually'.  What I am saying, in fact I said it back on page 2, is that the rule is incorrect as the DVD publishing companies are not usually found next to the copyright date.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 3 4 5 6 7  Previous   Next