Good man! 

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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Quoting DoubleDownAgain:

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Are you happy with the level of service Ken/Invelos is offering?

Are you not?

I'm very happy with my monetery investment.  As I've said before I love the program.  That isn't what my complaint is about.

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A long time ago (possibly even still in Intervocative days, so that it wasn't even Ken to get the money) you spent U$ 30.
Since then you were frequently using the several online services provided by this company (and possibly its predecessor). This online services are having an uptime which is close to 100%.
Believe it or not: bandwidth costs money, a good hosting service (that provides near 100% uptime) costs money ... In fact almost everything that has to do with Computers costs money. But especially Service costs ... (guessed right!) Money

I bought the iOS app happily.  I'd be happy to pay a yearly subscription to the talked about DVDP Online Pro + (Or whatever it would be called)  But it's not my fault that he/they set up a crappy financial model to begin with.  But Ken is closed off, doesn't talk with the people that support his site and program.

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What do you think, when were your 30 bucks used up?

Again, I'm not taking about the money I invested for the program itself.  I'm talking about how he treats the contribution community as a whole. How many hours have I spent contributing, voting on contributions, discussing rules, etc?  IN the hundreds easily.  I did that for free, knowingly.  But I certainly didn't do it for Ken or Invelos, but for the other enthusiasts that would benefit from my efforts.  Like I said before the program would be almost worthless without the data.  What has Ken done to embrace the community?  Nothing.

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When was the last time you used the implemented Amazon-button, by this providing Ken with a (very little) extra income?

Why would I go out of my way to help him earn money when he can't be bothered to do the same?

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Granted, you are not the one to blame for the business model chosen by Invelos (Intervocative), but looking at the world with reality in mind usually helps to see things as they are.

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In this case it means: You are already getting much more than your money's worth, so please (with a lot of sugar and a cream-topping) stop bickering.
Accept that (most likely) Ken has downgraded Invelos from status "Job" to status "Hobby", and if only because he and Gerri have to eat too.

Who am I 'bickering' with?  I'd more describe my posts about this topic as 'venting'

If Ken would spend a half an hour a week to post clarifications on discussions it would go a long long way.  Is that too much too ask to help support the people that work for free?  Whatever happened to the subscription based model?  I don't get your mindset, I really don't.  Ken has been consistent in not being a presence in the forums and rules discussion, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable.  I guess like many others before me I'll get to the point where I just throw up my hands and walk away.  I've really slowed in my purchasing in the past year, and my local db is pretty solid.  I'm frustrated because I think Ken could really improve things if he just put in a bit of extra effort, or just appeared that he cared about the community that made his program.  Is that really to much to ask?

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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Accept that (most likely) Ken has downgraded Invelos from status "Job" to status "Hobby", and if only because he and Gerri have to eat too.

Sorry, I meant to address this point before..

I disagree with you 100% on this.  I think you have it backwards.  This is not a "Hobby" for him, it's a "Job".  It is a "hobby" for you and I, because on some level we enjoy it and it's done of our own free will (Mostly!), but for Ken it obviously isn't, if it were there would be some enthusiasm.  Sadly sometimes things we love to do turn to obligations when we "have" to do them, which I sadly think is the case in this instance.  I get it, if that is the case.  But if it is then find someone in the community to do the grunt work... then act as a conduit and let Ken make a few key decisions when needed.  Much better than just sticking your head in a hole like an ostrich.

There is another reason I can think of that would cause an entity to be unusually silent. I don't like to think of it, but perhaps there is some kind of legal action in process that prevents Invelos from talking. Just wild speculation.

Quoting eommen:

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As I wrote half a year ago in the beta forum, are the natives getting restless? By now, more and more it seems.

I'm afraid that many of us has already given up instead of being restless 

Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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While it has happened before that Invelos went into hiding for a long time it is unheard of that Ken stops developing after the first betas are released.

This is the bit that has me a little concerned.  The beta period for the Android app is stretching out so long that I'm thinking there are either big changes coming or no changes coming at all.  I'm hoping the former, and as long as the site stays up and the contribution process keeps working I'm optimistic.

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Since the topic has continued, I might as well address my views on an issue (not that we haven't done this before.)

The "You have already gotten your money's worth!" argument is flawed, especially when it is used so broadly and as the go-to answer to try and shut people up.

What about people who bought DVD Profiler this year or even this week? Have they already gotten their money's worth in the same way that I know it is being thrown at us old users? Especially for them, the database is necessary, and the database is maintained by people who had to pay for the software before they could begin to maintain it. (At least I think that I had to buy the software before you could make db changes. I don't remember. My apologies if this is incorrect.)

In my case, I am not asking Ken to hurry up and release an update of the software. New features are always nice, but other than common names, I am perfectly happy with everything that the software does now. All that I am asking for is a message on if/when/in what way there will be any future releases for the software or the site. That should not cost anything. If the software is forever going to be left at v3.8.2, so be it, but with so many people wanting to know the answer (even if the future is unclear to Ken at the moment) giving us his view more than once every 12-16 months is something that shouldn't even need to be asked for.



I use a bunch of software that costs me nothing. Often, a developer's website has a donation link though there are others that do not. Everything that they do is out of their own pocket. Yet, the person(s) involved in maintaining the software will often still make regular updates or either they or a rep will talk about what might/will come up in later releases and answer questions when needed (assuming there as a community that does not have an answer.)

I also use a bunch of websites that cost me nothing. Site bills always have to be paid by someone (whether the owner, customers, ads, donations, or a combination,) but the majority of sites that I use require at most a free registration for full access to what they offer. How the bills get paid is not supposed to be my concern; the site owner/owners have taken on the burden with no expectation of me helping out. And even so, they still take time to make updates to the site for the sake of its users.


Stop using the cost/value argument to backlash those who are only asking (or in some cases even begging) for some assistance.

Quoting eommen:

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Quoting DoubleDownAgain:

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Quoting Lewis_Prothero:

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Accept that (most likely) Ken has downgraded Invelos from status "Job" to status "Hobby", and if only because he and Gerri have to eat too.

Sorry, I meant to address this point before..

I disagree with you 100% on this.  I think you have it backwards.  This is not a "Hobby" for him, it's a "Job".  <...>

Well, you can take that statement literally or slightly sarcastically or... . But for facts, DVDp is operated by a company (name), Invelos, it maintains an active forum site and an active "online DB" site, both of which obviously require money to operate (equipment, bandwidth, etc). That is way beyond hobby and sounds like "job" to me.

As for money, consider this. When one peruses download sites with freeware and shareware, you can sometimes see download numbers. You'll soon notice that poor software only manages a few thousands of downloads and successful ones into the hundreds of thousands.
In the past it has been stated by Ken (I think it was in the intervocative.com days) that DVDp had hundreds of thousands of downloads. With iOS and Android versions released in the two years after the latest desktop version, let's make a wild guess that each had say ten thousand paid copies. That would give a nice income. If it was seriously less, Invelos would lack the money to keep operating -- but it obviously still does. Even more, if income would have a serious decline, it would be a strong argument for making new releases enticing more customers. Or change the finance model, as some already suggested in this thread they could live with.

So, I am not worried it is a hobby. For me, Invelos AKA Ken has a job to do. Done well in the past. May have become a burden -- if motivation is an issue, let it be known.

As I wrote half a year ago in the beta forum, are the natives getting restless? By now, more and more it seems.

In all, I do like to hear from Invelos on, at least, their view of current business and business outlook. Every company does that, so why not Invelos? I know it is privately held, meant rhetorically. Still, if there is nothing to hide...

When has Ken ever been upfront about anything?  I can't remember him embracing the community in any manner.  #SMH at those contemplating the worst as he has never posted any updates.  Why give him the benefit of the doubt?  It's easy, he just doesn't care.

The following is just my recollection of events... so if I post inaccurate details please correct me.  I believe that InterVocative was founded by Ken and some of his developer friends as a company to  release software developed ny the group.  By the sounds of it the only program that was released was DVDP.  I can understand how this would be frustrating from Ken's point of view, so he developed anew version 3.x and launched it under a new company, Invelos...  and then a lawsuit happened between InterVocative and Invelos.. and it eventually was settled out of court.  Ken/Invelos still granted updates to previous users.  He also developed apps from iOS & Android which were independent purchases.

Getting back to the point of responding to eommen's post; Why is he so closed off to the community that built his program?  I think the annual subscription model for a DVDP+ is sound... It seems as he is interested in that path?  All we can do is guess why.

I don't get why he doesn't embrace the community...  If he wasn't such a closed off d-bag I'd be lining up to help as I love the program, but the apathy he displays makes me want to slap him instead of support him.

I challenge everyone, especially his blind supporters, to quote a post that he thanks the work the community has done to make DVDP a worthwhile program.  Please feel free also post if you disagree with me that the contributed date makes the program.  I'm sure there are more than a few that their local databases are mostly/all built on their own data.