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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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How is this possible? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
I seriously don't understand how there can be any ambiguity at all on this. The rules are pretty clear that only main (non-unit) crew are to be credited. If there's an art director credited in the main credits, there should be no need to enter location unit crew. There is ambiguity because the film industry doesn't work that way anymore. Take Babel as an example. It was filmed in three different countries...Morocco, Mexico and Japan. The main crew, flew to those locations, but the support crew...makeup artists, Art Director, Visual Effects...did not. Instead, it was cheaper to hire local talent. Those crew members worked with the main crew and cast, but only on the portion of the film that was actually filmed in their country. Unit crew do not work with the main crew or cast. They use stand ins or body doubles and film scenery, close-ups of objects and other inserts or cutaways. As I pointed out earlier, location and unit crew serve two different purposes and it is fairly easy to tell which is which. Unit crew will have a Director and DoP/Cinematographer listed under their header. Location crew will not. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Take Babel as an example. It was filmed in three different countries...Morocco, Mexico and Japan. The main crew, flew to those locations, but the support crew...makeup artists, Art Director, Visual Effects...did not. Instead, it was cheaper to hire local talent. Those crew members worked with the main crew and cast, but only on the portion of the film that was actually filmed in their country. That kind of makes my point for me. Those crew members did not work throughout the entire film, but instead only in appropriate locales. So we're now assigning full value to people who work on only 1/3rd of the film? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
That kind of makes my point for me. Those crew members did not work throughout the entire film, but instead only in appropriate locales. So we're now assigning full value to people who work on only 1/3rd of the film? No, we are giveing credit to the people who did the job they are being credited with. Without the location crew, there is no makeup department. Without the location crew, there is no Art Director. Without the location crew, there are no visual effects. Are you really saying that you would rather the fields be empty?  Maybe we should also eliminate the Morocco cast, the Mexico cast and the Japan cast because they only worked on a third of the film.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
Those crew members did not work throughout the entire film, but instead only in appropriate locales. So we're now assigning full value to people who work on only 1/3rd of the film? So in your opinion we should only credit director, writer and some producers in Babel's case? All others are location crew, since this is an episode movie. Very similar is Soderbergh's Che. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Babel is not a typical movie and frankly I'm getting pretty tired of seeing the same example brought up every time. Basing any kind of rule on an exception is not going to work for most cases. The rules need to work for all movies and for all users without intimate knowledge of film work. I personally have no problem if this means a few movies will have a bare-bones crew. In fact I wish the crew credits would take several steps back from the mess it is now. All the additions are only causing more problems and fewer people understanding the rules well enough to feel confident about contributing to the database. Or do we want the database run by a few experts and the rest of us idiots need not to bother ourselves? | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Babel may not be a typical movie but, as more countries have thriving film industries, the practice of hiring local talent is becomming more and more common. As the industry changes, so must Profiler.
As for there being a need for intimate knowledge, there is none. If the crew is listed under a country header, it is valid crew. I honestly don't see what is so hard about that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
If the crew is listed under a country header, it is valid crew. Based on your word only? Sorry but I need something more convincing. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 |  Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Take Babel as an example. It was filmed in three different countries...Morocco, Mexico and Japan. The main crew, flew to those locations, but the support crew...makeup artists, Art Director, Visual Effects...did not. Instead, it was cheaper to hire local talent. Those crew members worked with the main crew and cast, but only on the portion of the film that was actually filmed in their country.
That kind of makes my point for me. Those crew members did not work throughout the entire film, but instead only in appropriate locales. So we're now assigning full value to people who work on only 1/3rd of the film? What has that got to do with it. A lot of actors we credit only appear in the movie for a few seconds. This applies to a lot of films. Take Mission Impossible 3 if you take away the Italy Crew and China Crew what was left is probably far less than a third of the film. Yet you would credit them but not the Location Crew. | | | | Last edited: by Graveworm |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
If the crew is listed under a country header, it is valid crew.
Based on your word only? Sorry but I need something more convincing. You seem to have missed the point of my post. You claimed that the rules need to be simple enough for everybody to understand, without intimate knowledge. What I was trying to illustrate is that a rule that said, "Anything listed under a country header is valid crew," would be simple enough for everybody to understand and feel comfortable with and wouldn't require any intimate knowledge. Sorry for the confusion. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
You seem to have missed the point of my post. You claimed that the rules need to be simple enough for everybody to understand, without intimate knowledge. What I was trying to illustrate is that a rule that said, "Anything listed under a country header is valid crew," would be simple enough for everybody to understand and feel comfortable with and wouldn't require any intimate knowledge.
Sorry for the confusion. Quite right. And likewise a rule that said "do not enter location crew" would be equally simple to understand. Unfortunately we are stuck with no ruling and a whole lot of opinions. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Unfortunately we are stuck with no ruling and a whole lot of opinions. Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course around here.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
Unfortunately we are stuck with no ruling and a whole lot of opinions.
Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course around here. True 'nuff. And you know they say opinions are like... something else that everyone has.  In the spirit of the season, though, I will say one of the reasons I keep coming back to this forum, and have no problems presenting my (often unpopular) opinion is that for the most part, 99% of the people on the forums are respectful of dissenting opinions. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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