Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:

Please look at the cover for "Batman Begins".

It is on a single line and the font is the same for both words.

Do I now also have to take the front cover to find out the right original title?

In case of Terminator Salvation it's written in the film (credits) "Terminator Salvation" in one line in same font.

That's why earlier, I said that I would accept "Terminator Salvation" as an original title for the main database, but I would remove it locally.

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Where's the difference to Batman Begins? Or Superman Reborn? Or Underworld Evolution? All parts of a series, all written without a colon.
Just because it is or could be a sentance? 

Please look at the cover for "Batman Begins".

It is on a single line and the font is the same for both words.

I cannot find any DVD called "Superman Reborn".

"Underworld: Evolution" would be correct.

Sorry, Superman Reborn was wrong, it's Superman Returns.

Written in two lines and still without colon.

It should be entered as "Superman: Returns"

With yours interpretation of the rules i would agree, but I don't see just one profile, where it was entered like this.
Do you see, why this is really hard and would bring up many discussions.

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:

Quote:
Like Hal I have no idea what Superman Reborn is.

Superman Reborn was the the working title of Superman returns, and somebody added this as original title into the profile of the version I know.

If it was never released under the title "Superman Reborn", then it should not be included as an Original Title.

That's why I just removed it from this profile and contributed. (Never checked before)

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Certainly.

But the Rules are very clear about how these titles are supposed to be entered.

If the rules would so clear, we wouldn't have as much differences. There are still many ways to interpret them.
That's why laws are often so difficult, that nobody doesn't understand. But then there are no wys to interpret.

We all use the rules. (Ok, we should there are still many they don't use it) But we all use the rules like we understand them.

So I understand that the original title should be taken from the film credits. If these aren't clear I use the credit block. If it's not clear then I use the official websites.

If other users always use the episode rule, this is also an interpretation of the rules.

So we still have to live with such interpretations.

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
If other users always use the episode rule, this is also an interpretation of the rules.

So we still have to live with such interpretations.

I personally think this Rule is very clear.

I cannot speak to why some users have difficulty with it.  I give them the benefit of the doubt that they simply forgot about that part of the Title rule, when they entered the title incorrectly.

I agree, Hal. And I would further expand your comment to include most of the imagined problem,s that people come up with for the rules, there are a few legitimate issues but the vast majority of this silliness is imply someone trying to want to be able muddy the water..

Skip

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Imho Taro does the best what we can do in this case. I think this is matching to the rules and I think everyone would be cool with this. 

I most certainly am not. As pointed out before: this is simply about the way DVD Profiler formats titles. If the rules cause us to insert a colon when it's not seen on the cover, then that same rule also causes us to insert a colon into the original title when it's not seen in the credits. There's no difference. Surely you're not saying that none of the title rules apply to the "original title" field? Because by that reasoning, the capitalization rules wouldn't apply to the "original title" field either... Should I start entering any titles that appear in ALL-CAPS in the credits into the "original title" field as such, because that rule that addresses capitalization apparently only applies to the "title" field, not to "original title"? I hope not... But why would you suddenly exclude one rule, and apply the other?

So when the rules on titles say:

Quote:
Episode descriptors are part of the title; separate them with a colon and space; e.g. "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock". For multiple descriptors, use a colon and space for each break.

does that really make you think that the original title would be "Star Trek III The Search for Spock"? Shall I try contributing that and see what happens? Yet that's exactly what you're advocating: adding "Terminator Salvation" as original title to "Terminator: Salvation" is the exact same thing... If we do this here, we're going to have to add/change original titles for virtually EVERY title with an episode descriptor. Plus, as I described above, there are the horrendous ramifications of the fact that then apparently none of the other title rules apply to the "original title" field either... 

If the points you mentioned (episode descriptor, capitalization, ...) would also be stated in the rules under original title, we would have better clearity in this. Just an idea if the rules will be overworked some times.

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
It should be entered as "Superman: Returns"

I am really surprised by this stance.  Why is it so important to force the title to fit the Rule?

"Superman" is a noun/subject; "Returns" is a verb stating what the noun/subject does.  The title is clearly "Superman Returns" and this easily accords with what appears on the cover with no manipulation.

Similarly, "Terminator" acts as an adjective, telling us what manner of "Salvation" is the subject of the film.  The studio says the title of the film is "Terminator Salvation" and this accords with what appears on the cover.

[Hyperbole]If "Terminator Salvation" must be "Terminator: Salvation", what must be made of "The Terminator"?  Must we transform it to "Terminator: The", or perhaps "The: Terminator"?  (After all, the Rule does not specify that episode descriptors must follow the series title.)[/Hyperbole]

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

Quote:
On general princilpe, I'd say use the credit block on this. The rules aren't really clear on this point at all because many titles are written in such a way that you can't really tell if it's intended as series name: episode title or not. Superman Returns, as other have pointed out, is a legit sentence, as it Baman Begins.

Please show us where in the Rules it directs us to use the "credit block" for this?????  The ONLY time we are to use the credit block is to determine if a "possessive" on the front cover is part of the title.

And as pointed out earlier, "Batman Begins" appears on the front cover on a single line all in the same font.  "Superman: Returns" is on two lines and "Returns" is in a smaller font.  There are a bunch of "Superman" movies, making this just another "episode".  This isn't that hard.

No where in the Rules does it say, "If the title forms a complete sentence, then do x.  If not, do Y".