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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Romanization of Japanese actors & crew |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Then you must hate the movies, surfeur, since all we do is copy the credits.  How many times mist you be told this not about France and their sensibilities or the germans or anyone else, it is about the film credits. so in that sense I am absolutely OPPOSED to such a concept. I have told you before, Yves, we do not to duplicate the inaccuracies inherent in IMDb they already exist and you are free to use them.
There you go, AGAIN!!!
Skip
The problem is that we don't just copy the credits. We also have to find out what parts of the name to put into these boxes: First Name, Last Name, Middle Name. To me this is mostly impossible with 3 word chineese names. Then, or should I say first, I need to see what is the common name for this name, which is hard enough when we don't have any local reliable source for this. So I find IMDB to be one of the best I can find. If I find a common name, I can then run it trough the CLT together with all different combination of the 3 letter credited name.
Try this with a 30 lines long credit or longer. I do it ALL the time, several time EVERY day. NEVER have a problem. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting eommen: Quote:
To people who might be unaware of the "ç" issue: a "c" before an "o" is pronounced as a "k" or "kw", whereas a "ç" before an "o" is pronounced like "sw". We are ALL aware as this subject has come up before. Quote:
I am not familiar with the given name François anywhere in the world pronounced as "frankwah". So, any all caps credit as "FRANCOIS" reduced to initial caps "Francois" is dead wrong, the "C" does not translate to "c" but must be to "ç".
As Ken put a filter in place to translate "20th" into "twentieth" for the fox studios, perhaps a filter for the correct spelling here (François) would be a good thing. After all, I am not aware of this word existing anywhere except as a given name  Don't hold your breath as Ken has already ruled on this here. Basically...C = c, Ç = ç, É = é, E = e, etc. Quote:
Back to the original topic? Yes, please. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 |  Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
I do it ALL the time, several time EVERY day. NEVER have a problem.
Skip So that's why the CLT is all f... up  How can you know you haven't had a problem. Maybe you could do this for me then: EAN 7041271144058 As credited: Chu Ko Liang Yeung Wai Sun Koom Nam Fu Yu Kwan Pang Wang Chi Fei Missing both roles, common names, or First, middle and last name. Seriously would be apprechiated if you would, but I find these a hard nut to crack. I know this is not the thread for this, but this my example. All other profiles I found on this film has the excact same credit, which is mostly wrong. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is a difficult problem. I brought up a similar discussion 2 years ago. Proposal for romanization of names of Japanese actors and actresses for the databaseOne thing that is always going to be difficult in terms of sorting and pingponging is going to be the accent characters. It's not always easy to remember which vowel needs to be entered with the appropriate accent. I wish Ken could modify the search to cross search variations in accent characters which would make at least the search portion more robust. | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Don't hold your breath as Ken has already ruled on this here.
This has been written nearly one year ago, somewhere among thousands posts on those forums. But when rules were updated by Ken (last update 04 feb 2009), this part was not changed. Rules still say "use standard capitalization rules instead", and for any new user reading thoses rules, he will understand that FRANCOIS must be François for any french actors. BTW, we are not really off topic, we have exactly the same phenomenon than for asian names. Some people ignoring fundamental rules of typing in another language decide in a wrong way, with an important risk of non linking actors.. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
This has been written nearly one year ago, somewhere among thousands posts on those forums. But when rules were updated by Ken (last update 04 feb 2009), this part was not changed. Rules still say "use standard capitalization rules instead", and for any new user reading thoses rules, he will understand that FRANCOIS must be François for any french actors. That may be true for any new user that is familiar with the french language, but it is not true for every new user. Those that are not familiar with the language will probably enter it as 'Francois'. Quote:
BTW, we are not really off topic, we have exactly the same phenomenon than for asian names. Some people ignoring fundamental rules of typing in another language decide in a wrong way, with an important risk of non linking actors.. I doubt people have chosen to ignore the 'fundamental rules of typing in another language'. The more likely scenario is that the average user has no idea as to what those rule are which, as Ken explained in his posts, is probably why he opted for a simple one to one translation. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quote:
BTW, we are not really off topic, we have exactly the same phenomenon than for asian names. Some people ignoring fundamental rules of typing in another language decide in a wrong way, with an important risk of non linking actors..
I doubt people have chosen to ignore the 'fundamental rules of typing in another language'. The more likely scenario is that the average user has no idea as to what those rule are which, as Ken explained in his posts, is probably why he opted for a simple one to one translation.  | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have no idea that capitalized french names actually contains different letters when rewritten in uncapitalized letter. And I have no idea if there are similar translations in other languages.
Anyway, my point is that how are we to know if FRANK A. MONTANO", is actually translated "Frank A. Montaño"? What I do here, and as far as I know this will keep the CLT up to date, is that I credit him: "Frank A. Montaño", "Credited as Frank A. Montano". This isn't even a french production, or spanish. |
|  | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've noticed "common name" and "CLT" come up several times in this thread. When the end credits are written in Japanese characters, the "common name" and "CLT" results are arbitrary. Each form of romanisation is equally valid, as each is a transformation of the onscreen credit into the Latin alphabet.
Therefore, unless the credits are romanised for us on the DVD, common name is quite meaningless between variants of the same kanji. This is the point Taro, xradman and others are trying to make people understand. | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, I do understand. But I still think, and I think that's also what you're saying, that all names should be written using the Latin alphabet. So I common name should be able to be determined, as the credits sometimes are written using the Latin Alphabet.
But when the credits are in Asian writing, wouldn't someone be able to translate them into something that can be searched in the CLT, just skipping the credited as.
But if the CLT would work similar to the IMDB, we should be more able to get a common name, or spelling. But today there's no way I'm able to search the CLT for a common name as these can be very different from what's credited. | | | | Last edited: by Gemini76 |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | Funny thing: I used Google translator, entered Jet Li, translated into chineese and googled the result and I actually found him. I guess the problem would be to enter the credits in Chineese letter without a chineese keyboard. | | | | Last edited: by Gemini76 |
| | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 | | Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
But when the credits are in Asian writing, wouldn't someone be able to translate them into something that can be searched in the CLT, just skipping the credited as. The translation into something that can be searched already happens. It's the François/Francois issue with an additional variant, but without any right or wrong. With François/Francois, it can be argued from a given culture that one is correct. For romanisation, each is equally correct. | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 232 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
Quoting Gemini76:
Quote:
But when the credits are in Asian writing, wouldn't someone be able to translate them into something that can be searched in the CLT, just skipping the credited as.
The translation into something that can be searched already happens. It's the François/Francois issue with an additional variant, but without any right or wrong. With François/Francois, it can be argued from a given culture that one is correct. For romanisation, each is equally correct. So what you're saying is that some contributers just don't use the CLT or c,. I don't know where this letter is on my keyboard, but I just write Fran, and copy the letter from another name in the list  |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
So what you're saying is that some contributers just don't use the CLT or c,. I don't know where this letter is on my keyboard, but I just write Fran, and copy the letter from another name in the list ç = Alt+0231 or Alt Gr+c Ç = Alt+0199 or Alt Gr+Shift+C |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, I think what Wombat is trying to say is that in the West the name can be either Francois or François - but it can't be both for the same person at the same time.
However with romanisation of Kanji - the different variants you get for the same name are all correct - which makes it much harder to pick the best variant. | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
| | Registered: April 7, 2007 | | Posts: 357 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gemini76: Quote:
Funny thing: I used Google translator, entered Jet Li, translated into chineese and googled the result and I actually found him. I guess the problem would be to enter the credits in Chineese letter without a chineese keyboard. Any Keyboard will do. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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