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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Director in start credits and end credits different written, what counts? |
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| Registered: December 27, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
People like you, sabotaging the system...
Thank you. By the way, please explain how can I sabotage anything since I have not contributed profiles for years. Because you voice your opinion that something is being done wrong in the database and you may get other people to start thinking that way. this has been a trainwreck from day one. And starting from scratch wouldn't do any good, where are you going to find enough intelligent contributors to upload correct data? People want to contribute what they want in their database, which doesn't necessarily match the intent of the rules but is in those grey areas of interpretation. Main problem areas are Titles of DVD's vs content titles. Produced year/year of film release. original title/CoO title. cast & crew name credits/invisible accented cast & crew. forced filters. Voice actors/loop, adr, walla. Editions/ & we don't know where to put it, studio names, media/theatrical distributors, crew job titles, VFX company/Additional VFX company. Makeup Effects/Prosthetics. Production studios/Investment groups, location crew, restoration crew, aspect ratios, audio tracks, Medium/media type. accepted BY/same name without BY, CLT that doesn't recongnize BY names. child profiles in CLT count. Common name threads that have been neglected. all you can do it start chipping away at the incorrect data. | | | | Last edited: by ateo357 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | The CLT/Common Name system sucks! It is full of old IMDb data and just plain errors in data entry.
This is the main reason that I no longer contribute to the online database. I refuse to research every freaking possible variation of a name before contributing it to make sure it is the "common name".
We've been asking for a REAL linking system for a decade now...to no avail. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | | Registered: December 27, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
edit exactly. |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 824 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
The CLT/Common Name system sucks! It is full of old IMDb data and just plain errors in data entry.
This is the main reason that I no longer contribute to the online database. I refuse to research every freaking possible variation of a name before contributing it to make sure it is the "common name".
We've been asking for a REAL linking system for a decade now...to no avail. +1 | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,715 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
The CLT/Common Name system sucks! It is full of old IMDb data and just plain errors in data entry.
This is the main reason that I no longer contribute to the online database. I refuse to research every freaking possible variation of a name before contributing it to make sure it is the "common name".
We've been asking for a REAL linking system for a decade now...to no avail. That's of no use to the community, if everyone links it on his own. Not to say, that some name variant are all but clear, so people like myself need the common name threads to even grasp all of the name variants... Even worse: each and every thinkable runner up to the CLT system needs to find correct cross links in the data to be able to import it. The more work is done in front, the better the imported data... | | | | Complete list of Common Names • A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1) |
| | Registered: May 16, 2010 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 516 |
| | Posted: | | | | I find the CLT not so bad as it is told here by a lot of contributors. Why? It's to find a common name so the same actor is everywhere the same, you get everything when looking what films have I with this actor. As long as everybody does use the CLT, even if there is wrong data in it, everybody comes to the same result, this is the most credited, so I use it. And everything is fine, the users of DVDProfiler get what they wanted when searching something. From this point of view really not so bad when everybody does use it the same way.
It get's worser when somebody corrects the CLT by manual count and then does contribute this name. The next time somebody else does search in CLT he does no manual count and then he does not get the same result. We should take it how it is, then we get the same actor everywhere under the CLT common name. If not you always have to make a common name thread, but if we do this for every Crew and Cast we soon do not find them anymore as the forum has only a bad search possibility.
Fritz | | | *
3D TV Panasonic TX-P65VT30J + Blu-ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT500
My Filmcollection online: www.filmkino.ch
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| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SwissFilm: Quote:
As long as everybody does use the CLT... That is the problem. Thousands of profiles have been entered without using the CLT, because they were entered before CLT exists, or because some contributors do not care to verify . The result is that thousands of actors have variants (many of them generated by the rules and not by credits). No saying about CLT results which have changed just because of new movies. So people who download their profiles without correcting actors' name have no chance to get a correct linking. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting SwissFilm:
Quote:
As long as everybody does use the CLT...
That is the problem. Thousands of profiles have been entered without using the CLT, because they were entered before CLT exists, or because some contributors do not care to verify . The result is that thousands of actors have variants (many of them generated by the rules and not by credits). No saying about CLT results which have changed just because of new movies.
So people who download their profiles without correcting actors' name have no chance to get a correct linking. Didn't Ken do a system wide update of CLTs at one point? I remember something to that effect but I can't find the relevant post. | | | | Last edited: by Kathy |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Didn't Ken do a system wide update of CLTs at one point? Never heard of that. CLT is just telling what is in the online database profiles. When names are corrected in a profile, CLT takes new data. So at each moment, CLT is a photo of the online mess. | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kathy: Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting SwissFilm:
Quote:
As long as everybody does use the CLT...
That is the problem. Thousands of profiles have been entered without using the CLT, because they were entered before CLT exists, or because some contributors do not care to verify . The result is that thousands of actors have variants (many of them generated by the rules and not by credits). No saying about CLT results which have changed just because of new movies.
So people who download their profiles without correcting actors' name have no chance to get a correct linking.
Didn't Ken do a system wide update of CLTs at one point? I remember something to that effect but I can't find the relevant post. You might be thinking of when Ken purged the online of unneeded birth years. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting AiAustria: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
The CLT/Common Name system sucks! It is full of old IMDb data and just plain errors in data entry.
This is the main reason that I no longer contribute to the online database. I refuse to research every freaking possible variation of a name before contributing it to make sure it is the "common name".
We've been asking for a REAL linking system for a decade now...to no avail.
That's of no use to the community, if everyone links it on his own. Not to say, that some name variant are all but clear, so people like myself need the common name threads to even grasp all of the name variants...
Even worse: each and every thinkable runner up to the CLT system needs to find correct cross links in the data to be able to import it. The more work is done in front, the better the imported data... Unfortunately, you are correct, it is of no use to the community. Building a profile from scratch is a very time-consuming process without using the CLT. By having to look up every single name in the credits in the CLT, the amount of time required is multiplied exponentially, not to mention that even using the CLT, you will not always get it right because there are variations to credits that people will not even think of. I refuse to spend that amount of time. A true linking system that links "as credited" names in the profiles is the only way to solve this problem. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Which is why I don't worry about it. When I contribute, I enter the cast and crew base on the credits and am done. Nobody is required to use the CLT or research any names. If you enter them "as credited", you are following the rules. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
A true linking system that links "as credited" names in the profiles is the only way to solve this problem. I agree with you about the need of a better linking system. But I think this is not, by far, the main problem. The main problem is to know that "John Smith" in "Movie 1" is the same actor than "John D. Smith" in "Movie 2", but is a different person than the "John Smith" in "Movie 3". This needs to spend much time in research, and in certain cases is even impossible to obtain. But at least, for main actors, we should avoid absolutely two things : useless variants and unknown BY. Unfortunately, the "as credited" rules are the worst to get a correct linking, most contributors doing as The MadMartian : "When I contribute, I enter the cast and crew base on the credits and am done"I think that the current system could be considerably improved with rules made to avoid variants in most of general cases : married actresses, American middle names, Asian names and accented names, and with a rule explaining how to enter a normalized BY when real one is unknown. At least, all this would be a good starting point for linking when a future (?) system would be implemented. To solve the linking problem, we need work and need to avoid easyness. I spend much time to get correct linking in my database, and every day I find new names to correct. Other users do the same thing, and nobody can contribute because this work is against present rules. I have said this many times, but I'm quite alone to try to convince Ken, who prefers to hear the users asking for an "easy to contribute" system. | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: May 16, 2010 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 516 |
| | Posted: | | | | For me, as I have a well maintained local database it's relatively easy. This because I own about 7'000 films. When I type a Crew or Actor from credits I often see it immediately what is correct. If I type Gregory Nicotero from credits I see immediately that there is none, but 70 times a Greg Nicotero. In such cases I even don't have to go to CLT or search a common name thread. | | | *
3D TV Panasonic TX-P65VT30J + Blu-ray Player Panasonic DMP-BDT500
My Filmcollection online: www.filmkino.ch
* |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting SwissFilm: Quote:
For me, as I have a well maintained local database it's relatively easy. I rarely find easy to be sure about the common name. For example, without research, I would have been unable to find that Harry Kirkpatrick and Alec Baldwin are the same person. | | | | Images from movies |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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