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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Dunkirk as Themselves credit |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | While this is an odd credit, My thought (and only an opinion)
"Themselves" is plural and therefore implies a group of people. However you slice it, it is still a grouping of people, and I don't think we can overlook it. It may not be what some view, at first, as a group, but a group none the less
If the credit said John Doe and John smith as Soldiers, would that be a group. If you answer yes to this question, then Flanagan and Allen must therefore be a group.
Now if this is truly a stage name, then individual credits are not necessary.
As the credit
The Rolling Stones as Themselves.
How many would actually type out the members credited as the Rolling Stones.
Just a couple of thoughts |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are correct. If they are always credited this way, I would use it as a stage name. If, however, they are sometimes credited individually, the credited as would be required to link to those credits. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Well, I don't believe a group divider should be used here since there's none in the actual credits.
But aren't we 'inventing' dividers often? When we see John Doe Soldiers Mike Doe Steve Doe The rules tell use to use a divider when there isn't one on screen Paul |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
You are correct. If they are always credited this way, I would use it as a stage name. If, however, they are sometimes credited individually, the credited as would be required to link to those credits. And with a look in the CLT til now they're always credited as single persons. No entry for Flanagan and Allen or Flanagan & Allen til now. That's why we should use the credited as in this case. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
The rules tell use to use a divider when there isn't one on screen There are two "characters" and one "actor" in the OP's credit. Of course, the "actor" is two people, credited together as "Themselves". Let's look at another example that may give a different perspective. Below is a screenshot from the movie Buck Privates. You can see that one "actor" (The Andrews Sisters) is credited with multiple "characters", similar to what we have in the OP.  If we enter the credit in the following way... Patty Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Patty Maxene Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Maxene Laverne Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as LaVerne ...it will display as: The Andrews Sisters as Patty The Andrews Sisters as Maxene The Andrews Sisters as LaVerne Not exactly what's onscreen, but pretty close. If we enter it with a divider we get... The Andrews Sisters Patty Andrews as Patty Maxene Andrews as Maxene Laverne Andrews as LaVerne This would display three names in our profile that did not appear onscreen, and remember that the Rules do say that Quote:
these groupings should mirror the film credits. So I believe that, within the Rules, the closest approximation to the credits we can get is what was posted upthread by northbloke: Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves --------------- |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
The rules tell use to use a divider when there isn't one on screen
There are two "characters" and one "actor" in the OP's credit. Of course, the "actor" is two people, credited together as "Themselves". Let's look at another example that may give a different perspective.
Below is a screenshot from the movie Buck Privates. You can see that one "actor" (The Andrews Sisters) is credited with multiple "characters", similar to what we have in the OP.
If we enter the credit in the following way...
Patty Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Patty
Maxene Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Maxene
Laverne Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as LaVerne
...it will display as:
The Andrews Sisters as Patty
The Andrews Sisters as Maxene
The Andrews Sisters as LaVerne
Not exactly what's onscreen, but pretty close.
If we enter it with a divider we get...
The Andrews Sisters
Patty Andrews as Patty
Maxene Andrews as Maxene
Laverne Andrews as LaVerne
This would display three names in our profile that did not appear onscreen, and remember that the Rules do say that
Quote:
these groupings should mirror the film credits.
So I believe that, within the Rules, the closest approximation to the credits we can get is what was posted upthread by northbloke:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
--------------- This is a different situation. In your example we have 3 roles (Patty, MAxene and LaVerne) with one actor name (the Andrew Sister), so in this case a dividers is not allowed or needed. In Dunkirk movie we have 2 actor's credited under one role and thus a divider, per rules, is needed. Paul |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting paulb_99: Quote:
This is a different situation. In your example we have 3 roles (Patty, MAxene and LaVerne) with one actor name (the Andrew Sister), so in this case a dividers is not allowed or needed.
In Dunkirk movie we have 2 actor's credited under one role and thus a divider, per rules, is needed. No, it's basically the same. The credit in the OP is for two roles, "Flanagan and Allen", and one actor name, "Themselves". --------------- |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
The rules tell use to use a divider when there isn't one on screen
There are two "characters" and one "actor" in the OP's credit. Of course, the "actor" is two people, credited together as "Themselves". Let's look at another example that may give a different perspective.
Below is a screenshot from the movie Buck Privates. You can see that one "actor" (The Andrews Sisters) is credited with multiple "characters", similar to what we have in the OP.
(snip)
If we enter the credit in the following way...
Patty Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Patty
Maxene Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as Maxene
Laverne Andrews [The Andrews Sisters] as LaVerne
...it will display as:
The Andrews Sisters as Patty
The Andrews Sisters as Maxene
The Andrews Sisters as LaVerne
Not exactly what's onscreen, but pretty close.
If we enter it with a divider we get...
The Andrews Sisters
Patty Andrews as Patty
Maxene Andrews as Maxene
Laverne Andrews as LaVerne
This would display three names in our profile that did not appear onscreen, and remember that the Rules do say that
Quote:
these groupings should mirror the film credits.
So I believe that, within the Rules, the closest approximation to the credits we can get is what was posted upthread by northbloke:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen] as Themselves
--------------- No the proper way would be Group -->> The Andrews Sisters Patty Maxene LaVerne Group end Just like any other group role. There is no representation of Patty Andrews on the screen, unless tou could prove common name, then it would be Group -->> The Andrews Sisters Patty Andrews (Patty) Maxene Andrews (Maxene) LaVerne Andrews (LaVerne) Group end Other wise you are adding data where data is not... Charlie |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think you've got the wrong end of the stick Charlie, the names Patty, Maxene and LaVerne are actually role names. The only cast name on screen is "The Andrews Sisters". |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
No the proper way would be
Group -->> The Andrews Sisters
Patty
Maxene
LaVerne
Group end
Just like any other group role. What you are suggesting is to group by actor rather than by role, which I believe is the opposite of what the rule suggests. Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". This implies to me that cast members may be placed under a role grouping, where appropriate, but what you suggest is putting roles under a cast grouping. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
No the proper way would be
Group -->> The Andrews Sisters
Patty
Maxene
LaVerne
Group end
Just like any other group role. No, because 'The Andrew Sisters isn't a role, it is the name of the group. 'Patty', 'Maxene' & 'LaVerne' are the roles. Quote:
There is no representation of Patty Andrews on the screen, unless tou could prove common name, then it would be
Group -->> The Andrews Sisters
Patty Andrews (Patty)
Maxene Andrews (Maxene)
LaVerne Andrews (LaVerne)
Group end
Other wise you are adding data where data is not... Actually, because of the reasons I just stated, you are adding data where data is not. Edit: I see, once again, that northbloke beat me to it...along with scotthm. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | It seems that we have three separate situations and only one is covered by the rules. We have:
1. A list of individual cast with one group role.
This is the normal one, and is in the rules. We put the role in a divider and list the cast underneath.
2. A group cast with a group role.
There seems to be 3 options: put the role in a divider and list the members of the group (using "credited as" for group name); or list the members of the group (using "credited as") and use group role as individual role; or class group as an individual and credit as normal.
3. A group cast with a list of individual roles.
I'm not sure what the best approach is for this at all. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick Charlie, the names Patty, Maxene and LaVerne are actually role names. The only cast name on screen is "The Andrews Sisters". Are you telling me that Patty Andrews is not a person. I am sorry to tell you that that is incorrect. The three people that comprised "The Andrews Sisters" (the name of the stage group) were LaVerne Sophia Andrews Maxene Angelyn Andrews Patricia Marie (a.k.a. Patty) Andrews These are the three credited people in that position under "The Andrews Sisters" Unless you are telling me that these are just fictitious names that are made up for the movie. (a role) In all realism, they do not have a role listed in the credits. It is an implied "Patty as Herself" | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sorry to continue
if you take what is implied by the credits. they listing could just as easily said
Group -->> The Andrews Sisters
Patty as Herself
Maxene as Herself
LaVerne as Herself
Group end
of course the herself is not included, they they did portray themselves on screen. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I Are you telling me that Patty Andrews is not a person. I am sorry to tell you that that is incorrect.
The three people that comprised "The Andrews Sisters" (the name of the stage group) were
LaVerne Sophia Andrews
Maxene Angelyn Andrews
Patricia Marie (a.k.a. Patty) Andrews
These are the three credited people in that position under "The Andrews Sisters"
Unless you are telling me that these are just fictitious names that are made up for the movie. (a role)
In all realism, they do not have a role listed in the credits. It is an implied "Patty as Herself" I'm sorry, but they do have roles listed in the credits, those roles just happen to be their real first names. That isn't an uncommon thing so shouldn't come into play here. As these credits are set up, with the cast on the right and the roles on the left, The Andrew Sisters are playing 'Patty', 'Maxene' & 'LaVerne'. Because they are credited as 'The Andrew Sisters', that name has to go in the credited as field and no divider would be used. That, while not pretty, would comply with the rules. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Sorry to continue
if you take what is implied by the credits. they listing could just as easily said
Group -->> The Andrews Sisters
Patty as Herself
Maxene as Herself
LaVerne as Herself
Group end
of course the herself is not included, they they did portray themselves on screen. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on which side you are on, we don't take what is implied by the credits, we take what the credits actually say.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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