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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | I still thin we wait for ken's input. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,934 |
| Posted: | | | | I think I'll bump this post. Maybe Get Ken's Attention...
Charlie |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | bump No Vote: Do not enter unit crew such as "Unit Photographer" allowed credits are: Direction: Director, Directed by excluded: Co-Director, Directors of Special Features Production: Producer: Producer, Produced by, A [name] Production (excluding company names) excluded: Co-Producers, Associate Producers, Production Supervisor Executive Producer: Executive Producer excluded: Co-Executive Producer, Associate Producer ... Art: Visual Effects: Individual Credits: Visual/Digital/Special/Special Visual Effects, including Designer, Supervisor, and Director, Special Photographic Effects
Nowhere does it states: you're not allowed to enter allowed credits (list) from units
Post Production is mostly done by several units/companies Visual Effects is mostly done by several units/companies
I find it very far fetched to draw this conclusion: Unit Crew isn't allowed by the rules: "Do not enter unit crew such as 'Unit Photographer'" and using this to exclude location crew. In this case The Hours (2008): movie partially shot in the USA (U.S. Unit: header in movie credits) U.S. Unit: Gary Alper: Production Sound Mixer Judy Rhee: Art Director Iris H. Lemos: Costume Designer Ellen Mahlke: Costume Designer Eva Polywka: Make-up Artist | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
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| Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | As the rules are written now location crew is allowed but location unit crew is not. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting .: Quote:
I find it very far fetched to draw this conclusion: Unit Crew isn't allowed by the rules: "Do not enter unit crew such as 'Unit Photographer'" and using this to exclude location crew. In this case The Hours (2008): movie partially shot in the USA (U.S. Unit: header in movie credits) U.S. Unit: Gary Alper: Production Sound Mixer Judy Rhee: Art Director Iris H. Lemos: Costume Designer Ellen Mahlke: Costume Designer Eva Polywka: Make-up Artist Well, that just shows how differently we can interpret the rules. To me this is clearly not allowed. Until we get an official word on this, I would have to vote no to such contributions. | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: As the rules are written now location crew is allowed but location unit crew is not. can you show me where you can find this definition? Do not enter unit crew such as 'Unit Photographer' it does not say: Do not enter any unit crew such as 'Art Director' unit photographer is an not allowed credit not in the list Art Director is in the list. If I follow your reasoning: Sound: Reinhard Stergar: Production Sound Mixer < allowed these would not be allowed:Danetracks <= company name other unit not allowed Dane A. Davis: Sound Designer Dane A. Davis: Supervising Sound Editor Widget Post Production <= company name other unit not allowed Matthew Iadarola: Sound Re-Recording Mixer Gary Gegan: Sound Re-Recording Mixer | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
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Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Hi . nice to see you back.
I think the way they're interpreting the rule is that any role that is connected with the word "unit" is not allowed. So any crew listed under a header that says "USA Unit" is not allowed. Because "Danetracks" and "Widget Post Production" don't include the word "unit" they are allowed.
I personally think this is too literal a way of reading the rule, but I think that is where they're coming from. And without a rewording of that particular rule (defining what a unit crew is) I can't see a way round it. |
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| Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Do not enter unit crew such as 'Unit Photographer'
That doesn't mean for unit photographers only. It's just an example. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | "Unit Photographer" is not in the allowed role list! this tells me to list crew members within each role available and list in exactly the same order credited: Quote: Group names of crew members together within each role available and list in exactly the same order credited. The table below gives each of the crew roles available within DVD Profiler. For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Role" and "Credited As" columns. If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | Last edited: by ? |
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| Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting .: Quote: "Unit Photographer" is not in the allowed role list! this tells me to list crew members within each role available and list in exactly the same order credited:
Quote: Group names of crew members together within each role available and list in exactly the same order credited. The table below gives each of the crew roles available within DVD Profiler. For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Role" and "Credited As" columns. If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. There have been al lot of changes in the rules lately. "Unit Photographer" and other Unit Roles aren't in the Incorrect Roles table any more. In stead there's a new rule under the crew table: Quote: Do not enter unit crew such as "Unit Photographer" Maybe Ken could clear this by deciding whether location units are allowed or not? Furthermore, in the example of The Hours there are main credits for the Art Directors, Production Sound Mixer, Costume Designers and Make-Up Artists. It isn't like in Babel that the main credits are divided into the locations. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | rather a bit hypocrite your wordplay Unit or another label Department: this is about location crew as you did enter these: Australian Art Department Catherine Mansill: Art Director Charlie Revai: Art Director Jules Cook: Art Director U.S. Art Department Mark W. Mansbridge [Mark Mansbridge]: Art Director Australian Special Effects Department Steve Courtley: Visual Effects U.S. Special Effects Clay Pinney: Visual Effects Australian Art Department Tina Gordon: Make-up Artist Margaret Aston: Make-up Artist Jason Baird: Make-up Effects Rick Connelly: Make-up Effects Charmaine Connelly: Make-up Effects U.S. Makeup Department Karen Bradley: Make-up Artist Jenny-King Turko: Make-up Artist Steven E. Anderson [Steven Anderson]: Make-up Artist
and don't be so condescending about reading the rules | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
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| Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Even when we don't make the distinction whether the word Unit is being used. Because in that contribution of mine there are separate unit credits as well and I didn't add them. The contribution you are referring to is for The Matrix Reloaded, it would be nice of you to be complete in your message. Those credits are divided into two locations (US and Australia) like in Babel. There are no main art directors (only a supervising one preceding the art director credits), the special effects are solely separated for US and Australia. The make-up artists are only preceded by the department head and key.
Maybe I'm reading the rules too strict so that's why I asked Ken to clear this out. I don't think that it's hypocrisy to be critical. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Posts: 3,830 |
| Posted: | | | | what would be so different with location crew in U.S. unit for a movie that was shot in UK and US and the location crew in Australia and US departments? same job descriptions other locations, just because of a difference in labels US Unit or U.S. Makeup Department one would get a credit the other not? You must be joking | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Giga:
No one is denying that this is problematic because of the way Ken wrote the rule. Only he can resolve this, for the moment i would suggest stay with what has been suggested by myself and others, if Unit is used then NO. This is my recommendation, not because i care or have a preference one way or the other, but because of the very vocal majority which has jumped up every time I have suggested more complete Crew data (open credits), yet this same majority is strangely silent on exactly the topic they have so villified.
Hopefull, Ken will resolve this. I can only say from my own viewpoint, going back to Rule development, it was the intent to not permit ANY unit crew. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting .: Quote: what would be so different with location crew in U.S. unit for a movie that was shot in UK and US and the location crew in Australia and US departments? same job descriptions other locations, just because of a difference in labels US Unit or U.S. Makeup Department one would get a credit the other not? You must be joking I feel your pain. What I would do in this case, is explain the situation...that the film was filmed in two different countries with two different crews...and let the screeners decide which way they want to go. There is a difference between true unit crew, the crew that shoots less important footage, and location crew, the crew that works with the main actors on location. It is unfortunate that some people have locked on the the label, 'unit', instead of the function. I can't, however, fault them for it as I am a fairly literal person and can see where they are coming from. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | And you have the ability to decipher Unit and it's meaning, here you go again. I must need a new crystal ball, mine doesn't do that. Unit happens to be the only possible discriminator at this time, Ken would need to simply allow us to enter Unit Crew, something which you lack the power to do, Martian. And further as I said I don't care one way or the other. I am trying to give due deference to those who have so vociferously resisted the premise for Open Credits, and this is exactly the sort of minimalist crew that they should be upset about, as opposed to allowing Set Decorator, yet they remain mysteriously quiet.<shrugs> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
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