I have been using this program for, what, 10 years now?  Maybe more.  In all that time, Ken's post...the one James links to from March 15, 2009...is the first I can remember, where he addresses the issue of what the field names mean.  It is also the first time, at least that I can think of, where he mentions Asian names.

Ken is a the programmer for Invelos.  As the programmer, he has to prioritize.  While we may not understand, or even agree, the Asian name issue isn't a big priority...at least not publicly.  Until it is, we are all just spinning our wheels.  I don't see the point in fighting, yet again, over an issue that we can't solve...or maybe I am just getting soft in my old age, in which case you can all ignore me. 

Quoting Jubal:

Quote:
Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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Based on m.cellophane's post, I'd say enter surnames in the last name field and given names in the first name field and use the credited as to make them display correctly.

Is that not exactly what I have always said....Duhhhhh???

Ace;
Just exactly what do you think I mean when I say to use the CLT system.. The brilliance here, or lack thereof is shocking.

Sheeeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait, the next time I see Asian names. I am going to do Niagra Falls (Susquehana Hat) depending onn your favorite comedy team.

Skip

I'm not finding where you said this. You certainly didn't make yourself clear if that's the case. Besides, you aren't the only person who matters in this discussion. I wasn't replying to you, so I don't see why you would choose to insult me for allegedly agreeing with you. I'm saying it should be entered as Yun Fat//Chow [Chow Yun Fat]. This was, surname is in the last name field as Ken intended and it both displays and sorts correctly.

Taro:

No, don't feign innocence here. you are not trying to understand the letter and spirit of the Rules. That has been explained. You want to handle Asian Names to suit your cultural preference and you are upset that you can't, so you bring it up at every opportunity and will continue to do so, because you are given an answer but it is not the answer that you want to hear. Give me a break.

I try to be nice and reasonable, you even claim that you want to hear from someone who was intimately involved in the Rules. Then you argue with me, you make insinuations about my character, you imply racism. Get over it and yourself, Taro. I love that you want to peretend to be a put upon angel, you aren't even close.

Skip

Quoting Taro:

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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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Based on m.cellophane's post, I'd say enter surnames in the last name field and given names in the first name field and use the credited as to make them display correctly.

Thank you Ace and m.cellphane, I find your remarks particularly helpful: it is concise, to the point and helps me how to deal with the issue of how to enter Asian names correctly, to the letter as well as to the spirit of the rules. Especially the part where it is said that Ken wants to make a distinction between surname and given name is of interest in the discussion.

No, it isn't of interest in this discussion because Ken was quite clear that his clarification did not apply to the Asian name issue.  His statement dealt with 'general' name parsing only.  The issue of Asian names, is still open.  In addition, he asked that we not take that clarification as a directive to enter Asian names in a new order.  In other words, let it be for now.

Quoting Ken Cole:

Quote:
I should be more clear.  The issue of Asian names is still open at present.  Please don't take my earlier statement as a directive to reprocess all Asian names in a new order.  The statement was made in answer to the question at hand, which is general name parsing.

Thanks Unicus and Addicted for that clarification. So, if you don't mind my asking, how should we then input names like, for example Yun Young Park? Is Yun Young // Park a valid entry?

Quoting Taro:

Quote:
Thanks Unicus and Addicted for that clarification. So, if you don't mind my asking, how should we then input names like, for example Yun Young Park? Is Yun Young // Park a valid entry?

If that is how it appears in the credits then, yes, it is a valid entry.

Indeed, the main problem I had with profiling Korean names, is that both parsings:
X/Y/Z
and
XY//Z
present the data exactly as it is credited on-screen. Parsing method one takes Y as a middle name while parsing method two takes XY as a first name and no middle name. So I wasn't sure which is a valid input method or perhaps both were ...?



Yes, Yun Young Park is just a fictious example but I do have a concrete example in mind, albeit not 100% Asian since it's an actor with a mixed name. Perhaps this will make it easier to discuss the issue:
Daniel Dae Kim (appears in LOST, among others)

When I use CLT, I find:
"daniel dae kim" is credited in the following 474 titles (1068 profiles)
However, I can't see from the CLT if all profiles are parsed as Daniel/Dae/Kim or Daniel Dae//Kim or something else (unless I am missing some CLT functionality or something  )

I then Used NiceGuys' Name Variant tool (very handy by the way) and came up with this result from my local database (which is copy-paste of the online for those profiles) :
27 profiles with Daniel/Dae/Kim
2 profiles with Daniel//Dae Kim
Anyone have an idea if both are acceptable or if one of the two should be corrected?

As those with large Hong Kong collections are already aware, I've been auditing my HK titles over the last few months.  The database was a huge mess: IMDB clones, made-up names, credits in random order... it was amazing to discover.  I was so excited to find the rare title actually credited properly.  I've corrected over 400 so far, as credited, and every single one has been accepted.

Of course, it hasn't been easy.  Hong Kong credits are filled with errors themselves.  Misspelled names are common.  In one film, the actor's Chinese name is credited, and the next film uses their English name (and sometimes it uses both).  To determine the common names, I luckily had HKMDB to assist, which offers the various aliases for a particular actor, as well as photos for visual identification.  It also aided with the lack of credited roles (most HK films had only opening English credits, at least until the last 10 years).  As the auditing went on, there was a dramatic change to the CLT in regards to some of the actors.  What was a common name no longer was once I finished as credited.  I plan to eventually return to these titles and fix the new correct common names.

I also discovered that the crediting rarely used a dash in between the given names: to use our seemingly favorite example, in over 30 of his films that I audited, the overwhelming common name was Chow Yun Fat, not Chow Yun-Fat.  Only 2 of his HK films used the dash (the others were his American films, which I haven't checked yet to confirm).  He was also credited as Chow Yun Fatt twice in my collection.

Note: I didn't submit around 80-100 titles, which have no English credits at all.  With only HKMDB and my eyes for sources, I didn't feel I could submit those.  I kept them in my database with the cast marked as uncredited.

The parsing I used is the parsing necessary by: a.) the data on the screen; and b.) the naming conventions of that culture.

So, it becomes:

Chow//Yun Fat
Andy//Lau
Lau//Ching Wan
Tony//Leung Ka Fai
Tony//Leung Chiu Wai

And, as I noted, every single title has been accepted.

It is amazing that this topic keeps returning.  I've made it clear in the dozen of these Asian name parsing threads, I am done if the convention suddenly switches to the opposite in regards to Hong Kong and Korean profiles (Japanese films are a different story, as they are usually credited in the western convention, i.e. Akira Kurosawa, Takashi Miike, Toshiro Mifune, etc.).  Too much work to reverse without a legitimate reason.