Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Credit Rule question.
Author Message
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
I'm the no voter.  My objection is that if the change is approved this one name (i'm not sure if there is another in the DB this would apply to) would be allowed to have the parts of the name jumbled and be listed Not As Credited.

on screen Actor credit: Richard Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)
currently parsed: Richard//Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)

proposed change is to: Richard/(Rubber Ritchie)/Rosson


While I agree with Unicus as to the interpretaion of the rules, I'd would also suggest (and would probably use) the following:

    Richard//Rossen [Richard Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)]

This would maintain the integrity of the "exactly as credited" rule without mucking up the last name field (and any links to any profiles where this person is only credited as Richard Rossen.

The current parsing (with last name="Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)" doesn't make sense because the nickname part doesn't belong in the last name field.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,722
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
Richard//Rosson [Richard Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)]

That'd be lovely, of course, but the problem with that is that he's never actually credited as "Richard Rosson". We can hardly sustain something as a "common" name which is never ever used... "Never ever used" just doesn't equal "most-credited form"... As long as this 'Harry Potter' credit is his only credit in the database, I don't see how we can "invent" a different common name. I have used this solution before in similar cases, with the significant difference that it was one odball credit among various "normal" ones: if the nickname-less name variant actually is the common name, then we can use it, and put the actual on-screen credit in the "credited as" field. That's great, but it just doesn't work if it's the man's only credit...

IMHO, the rule is clear: this seems to be exactly the situation it was meant to address. I can't say that I really understand why this section of the rules was written this way - I'd have expected something that somehow retained how the credit actually looks on-screen - but whether or not I happen to grasp the reasoning behind the rule really doesn't matter at all: it still offers a very accurate description of this particular situation, and tells us very specifically how to deal with it. Try as I might, I really don't see how we could arrive at a different outcome.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgardibolt
digitally Obsessed
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,414
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
Quoting gardibolt:
Quote:

Although I think I may have voted wrong in the poll, which is kind of confusing.


I had to re-read it a few times to make sure I was voting the right way for my opinion. If you agree with Unicus you vote no to the poll.


OK, thanks, on closer reading I think you're right and I did indeed vote incorrectly.  I shifted my vote to No.
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
IMHO, the rule is clear: this seems to be exactly the situation it was meant to address. I can't say that I really understand why this section of the rules was written this way - I'd have expected something that somehow retained how the credit actually looks on-screen - but whether or not I happen to grasp the reasoning behind the rule really doesn't matter at all: it still offers a very accurate description of this particular situation, and tells us very specifically how to deal with it. Try as I might, I really don't see how we could arrive at a different outcome.

Ok.  If this is the only credit for this person, I agree that we don't need the "credited as.  But it's not clear to me which rule you are talking about:

This one:
Quote:
For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

which would be Richard//Rosson (Rubber Ritchie)

or this one?

Quote:
If an actor's credited name includes a nickname, highlighted by ", ’ or ( ), list it in the middle name field. For example John "JS" Smith, John ‘JS’ Smith or John (JS) Smith

which would be Richard/(Rubber Ritchie)/Rosson?
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,722
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
The latter - which, as pointed out by others earlier, is a very specific clarification for a few very specific examples to which the general rule doesn't apply. You really can't separate these two statements, though: they belong together. First there's a general rule, and then there are some clarifications/exceptions. One of these happens to describe this particular credit in detail, and explains how we should deal with it for DVD Profiler purposes.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
The latter - which, as pointed out by others earlier, is a very specific clarification for a few very specific examples to which the general rule doesn't apply. You really can't separate these two statements, though: they belong together. First there's a general rule, and then there are some clarifications/exceptions. One of these happens to describe this particular credit in detail, and explains how we should deal with it for DVD Profiler purposes.

Thanks for the clarification. Before I proposed Richard//Rosson (Rubber Ritchie), I did say I thought Unicus was right the way he interpreted the rule, Richard/(Rubber Ritchie)/Rosson.

One observation: This unique situation is complicated because the examples with nicknames don't include the possibility of the nickname coming after the name as John Smith (JS)  -- probably because no one had ever seen it before.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,722
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
probably because no one had ever seen it before.

Oh, but it's really not that rare: I've seen quite a few of these already. I don't know of an easy way to search through my local database for more examples, but the last one I remember offhand was editor Guy Picotte "Pico". As of yet, Guy Picotte still is the common name for that one, though: three titles for both variants, but we have a tiebreaker in the fact that there are a few more profiles for the nickname-less variant. So for now, that'll do, but if the balance shifts...
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
I've seen quite a few of these already. I don't know of an easy way to search through my local database for more examples...


If you have the Database Query plugin you can search for them easily enough. Just load the Cast/Crew data then do a query for the name field & Query Paramaters set to last name field with any of the relevant characters, ', (, etc...

Edit: Seems you can't search for " with that though.
 Last edited: by Ardos
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Thanks for all the opinions.  Sorry that my poll was a tad confusing.  Now I just hope the screeners agree with the majority. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Now I just hope the screeners agree with the majority. 


Looks like they did, showing as approved.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantkdh1949
Have Gun Will Travel
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,394
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting kdh1949:
Quote:
probably because no one had ever seen it before.

Oh, but it's really not that rare: I've seen quite a few of these already. I don't know of an easy way to search through my local database for more examples, but the last one I remember offhand was editor Guy Picotte "Pico". As of yet, Guy Picotte still is the common name for that one, though: three titles for both variants, but we have a tiebreaker in the fact that there are a few more profiles for the nickname-less variant. So for now, that'll do, but if the balance shifts...

That doesn't mean that the people who wrote the rule had seen it.  The examples don't include one where the nickname follows the name, just where the nickname is in the middle.
Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next