Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:

Unlike what north said there is no conflict. Mad, there is a meaning just NOT the meaning you are trying to put to them

First
Middle
Last

are the ONLY words used and there is no further definition(other than the one you are TRYING to apply). The Rules clearly state what to do with the data, and that in turn defines the fields as FIRST, MIDDLE, LAST. You are trying to apply meaning to the fields that suits YOU but is not supported by the Rules or the program. In short you are making assumptions about what is meant, and you have been told that assumption is not correct and not merely by myself.. As for use of the CLT, we have all repeatedly been told that we are not after "Correct" names, but after most COMMONLY credited names. So yet again that would be misuse of the program data for Contribution, this is data which can easily and should be accomodated LOCALLY.

Skip

unfortunately you didn't answer my question.

Quoting northbloke:

Quote:
Thank you for illustrating my point so clearly... 

If those field names have no other meaning, why is the cast and crew database sorted by Last Name?

North:

They could be sorted by any method chosen, Just because it is commonplace to sort on Last name does not automatically assign a particu;lar meaning that name, it is simply the LAST name. You will get no where as long as you keep trying to interpret MORE than is there. Your assumption is wrong.

I have said this before  abnd it gets old but, if John Wayne were to have appeared in a film anywhere, and been credited as Wayne John, I would tell you to list him as you see it, not as yopu imagine it to be. If you tried to associate it with john wayne i would ask if you can document that John Wayne and Wayne John are the same person, then we can make the association, but we are NOT interested in Marion Morrison (unless there is a credit out there). That is where you get all wrapped up, you can't get beyond your desire to deal with "CORRECT" names. We don't worry about it for john Wayne or any other actor, why do the Asians think they should be treated any differently. It's about FILM CREDITS Period. No one cares what you want to do locally, that is your business. But his insane focus on gotta have real name is just that insane.

Are we going to now start worrying about such things as James Grover Franciscus, even though NONE of his fillm credits ever read that way. That is after all his name. What relevance does that have to his film work or the way he was credited in any of movies or TV shows. It might have relevance somewhere, but not to Profiler, but if YOU want to track James Grover Franciscus...fine,,,locally is the place to do so.

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Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
...It's about FILM CREDITS Period. ...

You are wrong, because for the best way catching just film credits, you just need 2 fields:
"Credited as" and "Role played" (to use the profiler fieldnames).

Any more seperation of the entries, e.g. into 3 namefields - exspecially if there is no inner meaning of the fields name, as you trying to explain us - is useless (for achieving only this aim).

And btw. you didn't anwer my question. I asked for the meaning of the fields. You only said they have another meaning as I gave them intuitionally.

So I repeat my question:
what's the deal of seperating an actor's name into 3 sections, if the sections doesn't mean anything?
I only wanna know: what was the intention of the inventer of these 3 fields? (maybe only Ken can tell this)

Quoting madacid:

Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
...It's about FILM CREDITS Period. ...

You are wrong, because for the best way catching just film credits, you just need 2 fields:
"Credited as" and "Role played" (to use the profiler fieldnames).

Any more seperation of the entries, e.g. into 3 namefields - exspecially if there is no inner meaning of the fields name, as you trying to explain us - is useless (for achieving only this aim).

And btw. you didn't anwer my question. I asked for the meaning of the fields. You only said they have another meaning as I gave them intuitionally.

So I repeat my question:
what's the deal of seperating an actor's name into 3 sections, if the sections doesn't mean anything?
I only wanna know: what was the intention of the inventer of these 3 fields? (maybe only Ken can tell this)

WE had the three fields when the Rule was written, I have told you the inyent. You don't want to hear it because it is not what YOU want to be able to do and I know the intent. As ususal when it is something that you want to d and don't like the answer you will drone on and on and on.  I am sorry you don't like it, but that's the story.

@ Grendell and North

I see the point, you don't that's the real problem, pal. And you never will.The only thing either of you are capable of doing is making insulting, combative comments.

Skip

They mean what they say, not what you think, mad. How many times can i answer it

They are simply
First
Middle
Last
and have no reference to anything.

You want to apply your meaning to them and there is none. If you wnat to apply something to them they are more positional than anything. The purpose for this was to focus on the On Screen data and not any cultural proclivities for any individual actors heritage. It had/has a very simple rationale and the wording was chosen carefully to demonstrate that we wanted to match the credits as displayed, not as someone wanted them to be.

As to  the CLT, I won't take any responsibility for that, I think it is a flawed design to begin with. But Ken has repeatedly said it is about the MOST COMMONLY credited name not any imagined REAL name.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
They mean what they say, not what you think, mad. How many times can i answer it

They are simply
First
Middle
Last
and have no reference to anything.

You want to apply your meaning to them and there is none. If you wnat to apply something to them they are more positional than anything. The purpose for this was to focus on the On Screen data and not any cultural proclivities for any individual actors heritage. It had/has a very simple rationale and the wording was chosen carefully to demonstrate that we wanted to match the credits as displayed, not as someone wanted them to be.

As to  the CLT, I won't take any responsibility for that, I think it is a flawed design to begin with. But Ken has repeatedly said it is about the MOST COMMONLY credited name not any imagined REAL name.

Skip

so you say it's

HELENA / BONHAM / CARTER
MAX / VON / SYDOW
FREDDIE / PRINZE / JR
CHOW / YUN / FAT

right? Because thats beeing consequent with your explaination. If not, you didn't anwser my question fair-minded/evenhanded.

Without giving these fields a deeper meaning they are totally ridiculous and useless, because the correct order of "ON SCREEN CREDIT"-nameparts is already given in the "as credited"-field, and doesn't give the credit any more identification.

And btw. the CLT is just a heuristic-tool which is useless without using your brain.

With the exception of your attempt to muddy the waters by throwing in a Suffix, you are absolutely correct with the data as you presented it. After all we are not concerned with REAL names at the Online level. You can count on me being consistent with data, there are many who can't be counted on to be similarly consistent, their focus is not on the data, but somewhere else.

Helena/Bonham/Carter could just as easily be linked to Helena Bonham-Carter as anything else. As I have said many times mad my focus is on the data, not on some mystical cultural which in reality has no relevancy here. The strength of profiler lies in its TWO tier structure an Online database (which provides the baseline data) coupled to a local database where the individual users are in complete contro of tHEIR own data. Unlike a certain other website that has a single Online resource couplerd with a totally out of control user base, which follows NO rules and no rational patterns for data entry, with the result being the worst mish mash of data I have ever seen.

But let's suppose that you could enter the data as you wish using the CLT. It was Ken not i that set both the CLT and the parameters for it. What are you going to use for documentation to back up any claim. Hopefully something a whole lot better than "I am an expert in Asian names." That won't wash.

Skip

I know that, mad. But thanks, it's our pro_asians that are making the most noise.

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