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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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| Registered: March 18, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,639 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
What about cases where the DVD of the film has all the extras and the bluray is barebones?
Bulletproof Monk combo pack is set up that way.
If you exclude the DVD from the combo pack the main profile is basically barebones. The DVD child has many extras from featurettes to commentary. Also, what about cases where the movie is on one Blu-ray disc and the extras on a second Blu-ray disc? I believe the way the current profiles have been treated are the extras are listed for what comes in the complete package. Even then, the features section is somewhat limiting as I wish we could profile information down to the individual feature. Unfortunately, a single profile is limited for certain items hence why I believe child profiles were allowed for bonus media. On the other hand, a lot of information is also duplicative across multiple profiles. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
What about cases where the DVD of the film has all the extras and the bluray is barebones? I treat it the same way I do sets where the film is on one disc and all the special features are on a separate disc...list them all in the main profile and move on. I don't need Profiler to list which disc contains the special features, just what the special features are. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,851 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
What about cases where the DVD of the film has all the extras and the bluray is barebones?
I treat it the same way I do sets where the film is on one disc and all the special features are on a separate disc...list them all in the main profile and move on. I don't need Profiler to list which disc contains the special features, just what the special features are. Exactly. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,550 |
| | Posted: | | | | So, I'm a bit confused. Is there anything in the rules about something like a 4K/BD combo pack (or before BD/DVD)? If the 4K has no bonus features while the Blu-ray does, does that mean the parent profile should be blank or should it include the features on the Blu-ray disc as well? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | While not specifically mentioned, I would treat it the same way I would a BD/DVD combo...place all the information in the 4K parent profile as the child profile is optional. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,550 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
While not specifically mentioned, I would treat it the same way I would a BD/DVD combo...place all the information in the 4K parent profile as the child profile is optional. Ok. Only reason I asked is there's a profile up for vote removing the info and since it's not specified in the rules (either way), not sure it's right to vote no on it (in the meantime I just locked that portion of the profile in my DB since I don't download child profiles on these). But given the rules have not been updated in, what, 5 years, not going to hold my breath. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | So, this will all depend on how one reads the rule: Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile. Based on that rule, I ask my self one question...does this set contain the same film on multiple media types? If the answer is yes, I enter it as a normal profile for the main media type. That means I list all of the special features, even if they are on a separate disc. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,639 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting The Movieman: Quote:
So, I'm a bit confused. Is there anything in the rules about something like a 4K/BD combo pack (or before BD/DVD)? If the 4K has no bonus features while the Blu-ray does, does that mean the parent profile should be blank or should it include the features on the Blu-ray disc as well? UHD BD is still BD, but just considered profile 6 by the BDA. |
| | Registered: October 4, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 330 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
So, this will all depend on how one reads the rule:
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.
Based on that rule, I ask my self one question...does this set contain the same film on multiple media types? If the answer is yes, I enter it as a normal profile for the main media type. That means I list all of the special features, even if they are on a separate disc. Maybe it's up for interpretation but I don't see where in that rule it says to put the information from all media types on the main profile. The way I read it is that for combos, you put the information from the "dominant" media type in the main profile and that's it. And then if you want the information from the "lesser" media type, you can add a child profile. Isn't that what it says? |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,639 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting primetime21: Quote:
Maybe it's up for interpretation but I don't see where in that rule it says to put the information from all media types on the main profile. The way I read it is that for combos, you put the information from the "dominant" media type in the main profile and that's it. And then if you want the information from the "lesser" media type, you can add a child profile. Isn't that what it says? It may be up for interpretation, but I would consider a "normal profile" includes all pertinent information pertaining to the release. The main profile is cataloged by the UPC/EAN unless, that is, the release doesn't have a UPC/EAN and the UPC/EAN is for the entire package not just a specific media type or individual disc. Therefore, from my view, the "normal profile" should include the pertinent information, which would include all features in said package, for the release or package. The "normal profile" already includes information pertinent to the entire package which isn't format specific; e.g. media types (DVD, BD, UHD), digital copy, disc information, release date, SRP, etc. Remember that the other media types are optional so not everyone may use those profiles for combo sets. It's also more convoluted since the studios don't put all features on all media types. But what about multiple discs of the same media type; one BD with the main feature along with special features and a second BD with additional special features? In this case, would you suggest that all special features spanning across multiple discs of the same media type would be cataloged in the main profile? If so, why would the same not apply if the features span different media types? Now, I wish DVD Profiler was designed differently to better catalog the features information and to catalog/view the individual discs differently. To me, the way we currently profile individual discs is due to a current design limitation and is not optimal. For me, I would like to be able to catalog/list each feature with it's associated run time and to a specific disc. However, I'd like for all of that info to be contained within the main profile and not separate disc profiles. I'd also like to be able to list the individual run times for each episode of a TV series. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting rdodolak: Quote:
Quoting primetime21:
Quote:
Maybe it's up for interpretation but I don't see where in that rule it says to put the information from all media types on the main profile. The way I read it is that for combos, you put the information from the "dominant" media type in the main profile and that's it. And then if you want the information from the "lesser" media type, you can add a child profile. Isn't that what it says?
It may be up for interpretation, but I would consider a "normal profile" includes all pertinent information pertaining to the release. The main profile is cataloged by the UPC/EAN unless, that is, the release doesn't have a UPC/EAN and the UPC/EAN is for the entire package not just a specific media type or individual disc. Therefore, from my view, the "normal profile" should include the pertinent information, which would include all features in said package, for the release or package. The "normal profile" already includes information pertinent to the entire package which isn't format specific; e.g. media types (DVD, BD, UHD), digital copy, disc information, release date, SRP, etc. Remember that the other media types are optional so not everyone may use those profiles for combo sets.
It's also more convoluted since the studios don't put all features on all media types. But what about multiple discs of the same media type; one BD with the main feature along with special features and a second BD with additional special features? In this case, would you suggest that all special features spanning across multiple discs of the same media type would be cataloged in the main profile? If so, why would the same not apply if the features span different media types?
Now, I wish DVD Profiler was designed differently to better catalog the features information and to catalog/view the individual discs differently. To me, the way we currently profile individual discs is due to a current design limitation and is not optimal.
For me, I would like to be able to catalog/list each feature with it's associated run time and to a specific disc. However, I'd like for all of that info to be contained within the main profile and not separate disc profiles. I'd also like to be able to list the individual run times for each episode of a TV series. In regards to the last part. I don't know if it's possible, but on the Features tab/window I could see use of child tabs within that. So on each tab would be each disc contained within the combo pack have it's on Features tab. That way you can have a more accurate breakdown of the features on each disc. Perhaps someone can make a mock-up of that and see what it'd look like. As far as running time, perhaps a drop down window right by the total running time that would allow entry of the running time of each disc, of course the ability to name each disc too. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 65 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting primetime21: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
So, this will all depend on how one reads the rule:
Quote:
Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile.
Based on that rule, I ask my self one question...does this set contain the same film on multiple media types? If the answer is yes, I enter it as a normal profile for the main media type. That means I list all of the special features, even if they are on a separate disc.
Maybe it's up for interpretation but I don't see where in that rule it says to put the information from all media types on the main profile. The way I read it is that for combos, you put the information from the "dominant" media type in the main profile and that's it. And then if you want the information from the "lesser" media type, you can add a child profile. Isn't that what it says? I don't see much room for interpretation. The rules clearly demand for a "normale profile". A "normale profile" would require all info from a release not just from the first disc. This includes the features throughout the release. Just the film details are to be taken from the superior medium. But "details" are not the features, they are just the tech specs. |
| | Registered: October 22, 2015 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 275 |
| | Posted: | | | | Seems to me everyone has been too focussed on one paragraph and forgotten the bigger picture.
Are any of the Box set rules still applicable after applying the Combo set rule to a box set?
It seems odd that no one refers to all of the Box Set rules in order to work out what can and cannot be done with a Combo box set.
In addition to the Clarifications to the standard Rules, there is an additional rule that precedes the Combo rule, namely:
"In addition to the above, the following are not included on the box set profile: Subtitles, Audio & Disc Features. List them with the individual profiles.
The Combo rule allows a user to configure the Box Set profile as a normal profile for the Main Media type, so you can now add Disc ID, Credits, Subtitles, Audio, Disc Features, etc for the Main media type.
Please note, the Combo rule provides an exception to the over-arching Box Set exclusion rule for Subtitles, Audio and Disc Features for the Main Media type ONLY!
Any additional child profile (for secondary media type) is still subject to the Box Set exclusion rule.
There is no exception provided in the Combo rule that allows secondary media type Audio, Subtitles and Disc Features to be added to the main Box Set profile.
So to answer primetime21's question, the answer is definitely yes. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Box set rules has nothing to do with combo packs. Why would they refer to box set rules? Box Set rules are exceptions to the standard rules for releases that contain more then one film. Not the same film on different formats. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: October 22, 2015 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 275 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks Addicted2DVD for your response.
That is exactly the point I'm making, people are mistaking combo sets as not being a form of box set and accordingly, not subject to Box Set rules.
Firstly, the combo set rule is embedded in the Box Set section, you cannot deny this.
Secondly, where does it say "Not the same film on different formats" in the Box Set definition:
"The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film. The main examples are:
Sets where each film is packaged individually, and held together in a package of some kind.
Sets where each film is on a separate disc, but not individually packaged. This includes gatefold Digipaks and 2-Disc sets in normal DVD cases.
Sets containing 2 films, one on each side of Dual-Sided DVD. "
There is a film on the 4K disc, there is a film on the Blu-ray disc, so there is more than one film in the Combo set.
It is only an assumption on your part that it means different films.
Thirdly, the combo set rule confirms it is treating combo sets as box sets:
"Sets containing the same film on multiple media types (such as a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack) are to be entered as a normal profile for the main media type (Blu-ray in this example), with all included media types checked. A combo which includes HD media (HD-DVD, Blu-ray) as well as DVD should use the details from the HD media in the main profile. However, you may add an additional profile by Disc ID for the DVD content and add this profile to the Box Set contents for the Blu-ray profile."
Like I said previously, the Combo set is a modified Box Set by the rules.
Creating a profile for the primary media type ONLY is straightforward. But once you start adding child profiles to it for the remaining media types, they will be subject to box set rules.
The sooner people realise this the easier it will be to understand.
Regards. | | | | Last edited: by ObiKen |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Nope... it is more then an assumption as I helped write those rules. More then one film indeed means different films not a film on multiple formats. | | | | Pete |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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