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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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The continued drama we call "parsing": Ellen Albertini Dow |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes I would parse in standard form NOT edouble barrelled. I do not try and pigeon hole peopl into my pre-conceptions as you do Yves. Absent a fitzgerald-Kennedy then Fitzgerald is the middle nam,e, which in this case is factually correct. You always seem to believe that you have more knowledge than you actually do, YOU can fix typos, grammar and names to YOUR liking, despite what is indicated by the data. Stop trying to fit people into your cultural norm, France is not the leader of the world, not even close, and neither are we in the US. There is absolutely no evidence that i have seen other than that posted by Hal which indicates anything, and all Hal's does is provide documentation of Mrs. Dows Maiden name, but that is not evidence of how she chooses to parse it. Stop making the assumptions that you always do based upon Rules of your own. It's a big world and France is a very tiny piece of it...you even tinier. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | And BTW Surfeur for the record it is John Herschel Glenn, Jr, and Herschel is the middle name. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | What you need to understand is while you may feel strong about your opinion on this matter don't mean everyone agrees with you. And you make it seem like you feel instead of letting people have their own opinion (like feeling it is worth the loss of that little bit [IMO] to have a single name field) It seems like you must have everyone not just understand your side (which I do) but agree with you as well. Well I am sorry... but that is just something I do not agree with.
Wow, Pete, very well said. And when surfeur feels, then he is right and anyone who doesn't agree will ultimately get accused of something. All that has been proven is what the ladies birth name is and was, it is NOT any sort of evidence to support any sort of assumption of a double barrelled name.
She happens to come from the same generation as my own mother, and I can tell you factually that HER last name was Magly and her middle name was Elzay. Her name was was ELZAY MAGLY despte Elzay being her maiden name. She made the choice herself to make it her middle name and, while that might not be true ie France, in the Ubited States people have the freedom to deal with THEIR name as THEY choose, not as might be chosen by culture or law. My middle name is E., are you going to similarly try and tell me what E. really is, you will be dead wrong, I can tell you what it was over 70 years ago, I can also tell you that my father had his middle name legally modified to be simply an initial, why, I wasn't alive and wasn't privy to that information, he passed it on to me | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
A one field name would forbid sorting, and it is a very bad solution. Fortunately Ken wrote he is working on a two field name system, which seems fine for me. So what we need is a single name field, and a "Sort As" name field (just like the title). Two fields, instead of the three we have now. The Sort filed can be filled initially when it is empty, but never overwritten so that it becomes local. | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | dupe | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
And BTW the meager documentation provided by Hal, sorry Hal, proves nothing beyond the last name she was born with. It does not support his references to Albertini Dow. Further she is an American actress so unlike some countries there is no Rule or even law that dictates preseuptiously how a woman MUST parse her last name. That is her choice, and I see no documentation that supports a double barrelled last name, it is a possibility but it is NOT a GIVEN.
"the meager documentation" was not provided by me, but it is more evidence than exists to show that it should be parsed E/A/D, therefore, as I said, I would parse it E//A D. The reference shows her name as Ellen ALBERTINI DOW, clearly indicating that 'ALBERTINI DOW' is her surname. It then goes on to refer to her as 'ALBERTINI DOW', further indicating that this is her surname. Where is the documentation supporting that her surname is 'DOW'? Lacking any, I agree with Surfeur that is is an easy decision. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
A one field name would forbid sorting, and it is a very bad solution. Fortunately Ken wrote he is working on a two field name system, which seems fine for me. Ken's two field name system would do nothing to resolve the problem of this name! People would still be arguing over whether 'Albertini' belongs in the "given name" field or in the "surname" field. A better solution would be to have a "single name field" into which the entire name is entered, and then have a surname field to be used just for sorting. That way, we would only be arguing over the surname field!  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | And wouldn't even argue about that if the surname field defaults on last word and is local only. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
And wouldn't even argue about that if the surname field defaults on last word and is local only. I could support that, even though it would mean having to "fix" a lot of surnames locally. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes but it would be so much easier to deal with the online. So I personally think it would be worth it. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Winston Smith:
Quote:
And BTW the meager documentation provided by Hal, sorry Hal, proves nothing beyond the last name she was born with. It does not support his references to Albertini Dow. Further she is an American actress so unlike some countries there is no Rule or even law that dictates preseuptiously how a woman MUST parse her last name. That is her choice, and I see no documentation that supports a double barrelled last name, it is a possibility but it is NOT a GIVEN.
"the meager documentation" was not provided by me, but it is more evidence than exists to show that it should be parsed E/A/D, therefore, as I said, I would parse it E//A D.
The reference shows her name as Ellen ALBERTINI DOW, clearly indicating that 'ALBERTINI DOW' is her surname. It then goes on to refer to her as 'ALBERTINI DOW', further indicating that this is her surname.
Where is the documentation supporting that her surname is 'DOW'?
Lacking any, I agree with Surfeur that is is an easy decision. There is NO DOC to support that claim. Simply the misguided assumption of a single user applying HIS own standards | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Staid:
For one thing I don't really care. I am only tired of the ongoing soap opera quality to this issue and users making unsubstantiated and unsupported claims about something that there only basis for for claim is THEIR culture and their own ASSUMPTIONS and standards, when the evidence does not support them. To top it off all of these threads on this topic have ANY relevance to anything involving Profiler, the only relevant issue is that the data be handled in a consistent way for a given person. Whether or not the name is single or double barrelled in fact has absolutely no relevance to Profiler | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | For those that want to rely on a single mixed case/full case credit to "seal the deal", I'd like to repeat my earlier question: since when does that matter? Says who? It certainly doesn't matter to Invelos, since in the Elaine Corral Kendall example I quoted earlier, we even had a hyphenated Elaine Corral-Kendall credit, and Invelos still ruled that we parse it as E/C/K. How is this any different? Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below, from 'In Good Company') that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way ( thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?  Look, I'd be happy to go with Ellen//Albertini Dow, but then I'd want to go back and use Philip//Baker Hall and Elaine//Corral Kendall as well: the arguments to do so are certainly exactly the same. But again: in the case of Elaine Corral Kendall Invelos explicitly ruled against that, and I just don't see how this is any different. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
For those that want to rely on a single mixed case/full case credit to "seal the deal", I'd like to repeat my earlier question: since when does that matter? Says who? It certainly doesn't matter to Invelos, since in the Elaine Corral Kendall example I quoted earlier, we even had a hyphenated Elaine Corral-Kendall credit, and Invelos still ruled that we parse it as E/C/K. How is this any different?
Different example: Philip Baker Hall. There again, we had an on-screen credit (see below) that caused some to feel his last name was "Baker Hall", not "Hall". Still, we didn't go that way (thread), and we stuck with P/B/H. Again: how is this any different?
OMG T!M THAT PICTURE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH DOCUMENTATION STOP SHOVING YOUR CULTURE DOWN MY THROAT AND INTO THE INVELOS DATABASE!!1!1!!1111!11111! | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
And wouldn't even argue about that if the surname field defaults on last word and is local only.
I could support that, even though it would mean having to "fix" a lot of surnames locally. A better solution is probably to let the initial contributor set the Sort Name field, or default to the last word if it isn't set. Later contributions would not accept changes to the sort field, so that form there on it is local. Just like we do now with the Sort Title. | | | | Hans | | | | Last edited: by Staid S Barr |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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