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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Capitalization (my bad)
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting Grendell:
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Personally I'm fine with that... just make clear in the rules what to enforce!

I wholeheartedly support the request for including any clarification made by Invelos in the forums in the rules. Unfortunately, that often doesn't happen. Maybe because they feel they aren't real rule changes, but merely clarifications of what's already there...

Anyway, instead Invelos decided to "pin" a thread where a number of these clarifications - including this "É=é, E=e" one - is collected: here.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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BTW, Grendell while I know the argument which is used. It is not unheard of to see a credit which reads GÉRARD DEPARDIEU which demonstrates that the film industry does not follow supposed norms, they do it the way that they choose, we simply follow and since both Capitalized and Lower case accented letters are available to us we follow what we see, not what we imagine. There are unfortunately sometimes when we have to fudge because the program still does not recognize ALL possible characters. I live for the day when that is no longertrue.
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 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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While not covered by the rules, just about everybody uses standard caps no matter the format of the credits.
[...]
As I said above, my understanding is that you will keep what you have in your local.

Thank you very much, Sir. I begin to remember.
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
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Quoting VirusPil:
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What happens again if you have the credit Aaaa Bbbb in some profiles and a contribution changes one profile to AaAa BbBb? The name won't change in your local database? Or every profile is affected by the name change?

As I said above, my understanding is that you will keep what you have in your local.

Tested it and yes your local variant won't be overwritten. (Edit: Also, no new variant will be created. Edit2: The only time the online variant influences your local database is at first download.)

Thanks for your helpful answer, Sir.

You do not mean with Edit2, that if you have profile1 with variant Bbbb and you add profile2 with variant BbBb (instead of updating profle1) it will then overwrite the existing variant?!

But you'll have Bbbb in profile2 instead, so if you contribute it again the evaluation screen will detect a change from BbBb to Bbbb which, if accepted, will reach the main database?

And what if a name variant change is correct, how can I receive the correction? I can't, can I?
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting bbbbb:
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And what if a name variant change is correct, how can I receive the correction? I can't, can I?

A capitalisation-only change in an actor which is already part of your local database? Then no, there's absolutely no way to "receive" that correction. You'll have to change it manually - that's the only way to get that correction into your local database.

For the record, I'll reiterate that Invelos should have the contribution system ignoring capitalisation changes, rather than just having the local update-acceptance-system ignoring those changes. The latter is nice, and it protects my local value, which is good, but the real problem lies in the fact that the contribution system still perceives a difference between two name variants where the only difference is in capitalisation. It really shouldn't do that. As bbbbb points out, there is no upside to that behaviour whatsoever. It just causes needless contributions, needless ping-ponging, needless clutter on the contribution evaluation screen, and for all that we get absolutely nothing in return...
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting T!M:
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For the record, I'll reiterate that Invelos should have the contribution system ignoring capitalisation changes, rather than just having the local update-acceptance-system ignoring those changes. (...)

While your explanation, which I have deleted, is correct, IMO neither contribution nor downloading should ignore capitalisation changes. IMO only the linking system should ignore capitalisation while searching for linked credits.

But better linking systems have been proposed with and without an unique key per person.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Quoting bbbbb:
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....Thanks for your helpful answer, Sir.
...

I'll try to explain it, but don't slap me if I can't do it in a good way.

Let's say you add Profile A with actor John Mcsmith in it and it is the first time you add a John Mcsmith, then you get an entry with John Mcsmith in your local database.

If you do a download of a Profile B after this with John McSmith, your local entry remains John Mcsmith and the local entry in Profile B changes to John Mcsmith. If you want to change the entry you have to do this manually.

If you change your entry to John McSmith and you do an upload of Profile A, the online entry changes to John McSmith after acceptance.

You can't have two entries local with John Mcsmith and John McSmith. (without BY)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorVirusPil
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Quoting T!M:
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... For the record, I'll reiterate that Invelos should have the contribution system ignoring capitalisation changes, rather than just having the local update-acceptance-system ignoring those changes. The latter is nice, and it protects my local value, which is good, but the real problem lies in the fact that the contribution system still perceives a difference between two name variants where the only difference is in capitalisation. It really shouldn't do that. ...


Hmm, what if a first entry is absolute nonsene? Like: JOHN DOE or jOhN DoE? With an ignoring this entrty would stay forever. (And every user had to correct it manual)

I also hate the ping-ponging, but why should someone just change a case and contribute. 
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting RHo:
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IMO neither contribution nor downloading should ignore capitalisation changes.

Oh, but I'm definitely with you on that. After Ken's input on the matter, however, I just don't see him going back. So I while I locally do meticulously track capitalisation differences, I'm pretty convinced that we're stuck with being told that capitalisation differences are "immaterial" as far as the online database is concerned. And that's where my comment comes in: if we're indeed stuck with that, then I feel capitalisation differences should not only be disregarded when accepting updates, but also when contributing them. It's a two-way street: if we, like bbbbb asked about, cannot "accept" a capitalisation change coming down with an update, and if Invelos's position is that those changes are "immaterial" anyway, then why should we be able to contribute said changes? It just doesn't make sense.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
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Quoting VirusPil:
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I also hate the ping-ponging, but why should someone just change a case and contribute. 

Well, you've just outlined some examples where you would do exactly that, so you've answered your own question. All you need to do now is imagine that for some users, the bar may be set a bit lower than it is for you, and there you go. It just remains strange that we can (or are even forced to) contribute capitalisation-only changes, but can't accept them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbbbbb
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The capitalization situation doesn't seem to me like an elaborate concept but rather desultory circumventing limitations.
Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect]
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
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Quoting bbbbb:
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The capitalization situation doesn't seem to me like an elaborate concept but rather desultory circumventing limitations.


In fact, nothing in the common name system seems like an elaborate concept. It only pleases those who just want to increase their contributions score with the minimum of effort (not trying to verify correct spelling of names), even if the consequence is the unlinking of other users' local databases.
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorJimmy S
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting VirusPil:
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why should someone just change a case and contribute. 

Because that give them a +1 in their contributions number and some people need that to boost their ego.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting T!M:
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It's a two-way street: if we, like bbbbb asked about, cannot "accept" a capitalisation change coming down with an update, and if Invelos's position is that those changes are "immaterial" anyway, then why should we be able to contribute said changes? It just doesn't make sense.

I can't speak for Invelos, but I prefer to have the correct capitalization whenever possible.  If I can verify it, I want to upload it so that the main database will be correct.  If we don't care, then we might as well enter them exactly as credited regardless of how it is formatted.  Because we are forced to convert them to mixed case, I will do my vest to convert them properly.

By the same token, when downloading an update, seeing the change lets me know that one of the two is incorrect.  When I see this, I will check to see which one and correct my local if needed.

I would say, "maybe it's just me," but I know it isn't.  surfeur51 wants the same thing and, while I understand Ken's reasons for not allowing it, I feel bad for him because I can do something that he isn't allowed to do.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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Because we are forced to convert them to mixed case, I will do my vest to convert them properly.

I totally agree with this.

The only interesting purpose of the contribution process is to give other users the best data possible. If this needs a little more work, just do it or do not contribute. And even don't contribute when rules ask for wrong data. I see no interest to give other users inaccurate data, as I see no interest to write a Wikipedia story of Commodus just after seeing Ridley Scott's "Gladiator" : the easiest way leads to crap.
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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The best data possible as defined by YOU, Yves. Therein lies the problem. We have another user who like to talk about useful data,,,also as defined by HIM. He doesn't recognize, anymore than you do, that, his definition is about his definition. In your case it is about your belief in data that does not appear in the real world. We use what actually appears as data simply to keep the system grounded in the data that is presented...not data  that exists in their belief in their "expertise"...real data. The chatracter map show both É and é, both Ç and ç. The film industry doen'tfollow your Rules either, Yves, you can see FRANÇOIS credited as well as François or FRANCOIS. Does the film industry cause issues sometimes with their credits...sure, MCSMITH. You want a standard which has no standard, but is completely dependent upon user imagination, we have q system which is grounded in hard data, and user imagination comes into play locally and you are free to exercise it locally. Similarly ewe have a system and method behind BY, but if a user wants to track every BY he can find, he is free to do so, he is not however free to just contribute BY data which does not meet the parameters of use in the Online database. <shrugs>  Sorry, Yves, you can use whatever you want locally, you can correct whatever you consider to be a typo, and if "real" names are an issue to you, instead of hard data, you are free to do that as well
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next