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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Another title question: I Spy |
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| Author |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
But only if the title includes a period, dash or other symbol. Are you seriously saying that it doesn't? Honestly?  I'm just gonna quote the rule one more time, since it's really all there: Quoting the contribution rules: Quote:
For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*" Since neither the credit block on the back of the case, the film credits, nor the opening sequence include any kind of dash or any other symbol - just a space - this rules dictates that the title is 'I Spy'. I really don't see any way around that. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Corne:
Quote:
But only if the title includes a period, dash or other symbol.
Are you seriously saying that it doesn't? Honestly? Sorry but what is so difficult about this rule: Quote:
For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*" So the dot, hyphen and asterisk are standard characters according to this rule. | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | You're not reading the rule it in it's entirety, Corne - you're just picking a few random words from it... The rule tells you to look to the credits block and the film credits to determine whether to exclude that thing you see on the cover, or whether to convert it to a standard character. Since the credits block and the credits exclude it, the rule tells you to exclude for the title as well. Had the credits block and the film credits shown it as a dash, we'd have included it as such in the title. Now that they don't, we don't either.
Please look at the words between the ones you've bolded. There's the key. It tells you to look at the credits block and the credits "to determine whether to exclude or convert" that thing you see on the cover. And the fact that there's nothing there in the credits block and the credits means that we're supposed to exclude it for the title as well. How can you convert nothing, as seen in the credits block and on the screen, into a dash? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can see both sides of this one but am leaning more towards including the hyphen. In the English language, a hyphen and a dash are grammatically two different things ( Source - Point 3). As it's being used here for joining two words, it must be a hyphen which is a standard character whilst dashes (em or en) aren't. |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
You're not reading the rule it in it's entirety, Corne - you're just picking a few words from it... The rule tells you to look to the credits block and the film credits to determine whether to exclude that thing you see on the cover, or whether to convert it to a standard character. Since the credits block and the credits exclude it, the rule tells you to exclude for the title as well. Had the credits block and the film credits shown it as a dash, we'd have included it as such in the title. Now that they don't, we don't either. In that reasoning we should do that with all front cover titles because theoretically even letters are symbols and this rule could be made simpler by just saying to check the credit block to determine what to enter in the title field. I clearly read this rule differently then. I exclude standard characters such as letters, numbers, dots and hyphens from this rule (that's how I read this rule). | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
So the dot, hyphen and asterisk are standard characters according to this rule. What does that have to do with anything?  The rule, unless I am misreading it, requires that the symbol...standard or otherwise...be in, either, the title as written in the credit block, the film credits or the opening sequence. If it is not included in any of those places, it is not part of the title. I will admit that I neglected to read the portion of T!M's OP that dealt with the rule because, as I explained earlier, I don't believe a square can be a hyphen. Now that I reread that post, and his subsequent ones, I don't think it matters. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote:
In that reasoning we should do that with all front cover titles because theoretically even letters are symbols and this rule could be made simpler by just saying to check the credit block to determine what to enter in the title field. I clearly read this rule differently then. I exclude standard characters such as letters, numbers, dots and hyphens from this rule (that's how I read the rule). Except that the rule, when it says "periods, dashes, or other symbols," has given us an example of what types of symbols it is talking about. If that doesn't make it clear, the fact that the rule tells us we might have to "convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"," should.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Formerly known as...: Quote:
In the English language, a hyphen and a dash are grammatically two different things [...] I'm sure they are. But these outside definitions have no bearing on DVD Profiler's contribution rules. We simply have a rule that, purely for DVD Profiler purposes, directs us to look at the credits block and the film credits to determine whether to exclude this thing from the cover, or to convert it to a standard character. And since there's nothing in the credits block nor on the screen, there's just no way to arrive at 'I-Spy'... Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
The rule, unless I am misreading it, requires that the symbol...standard or otherwise...be in, either, the title as written in the credit block, the film credits or the opening sequence. If it is not included in any of those places, it is not part of the title. Exactly! It really is that simple... |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Formerly known as...:
Quote:
In the English language, a hyphen and a dash are grammatically two different things [...]
I'm sure they are. But these outside definitions have no bearing on DVD Profiler's contribution rules. Of course it does. As per what you've quoted from the rules - Quote:
For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*" This title doesn't include a dash since it must be a hyphen. Therefore the credit block part doesn't come in to play IMHO. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Formerly known as...: Quote:
This title doesn't include a dash since it must be a hyphen. Therefore the credit block part doesn't come in to play IMHO. But, in your opinion, it is a hyphen and the rule says "or other symbols." Are you saying a hyphen is not a symbol? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | If the Rules count it as one, then it's effectively saying convert a hyphen in to a hyphen which would be silly. Therefore, I have to take it, that they don't count it as one, simply a "standard character". |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Formerly known as...: Quote:
If the Rules count it as one, then it's effectively saying convert a hyphen in to a hyphen which would be silly. Therefore, I have to take it, that they don't count it as one, simply a "standard character". Exactly and even a letter is theoretically a symbol, but the rules make a distinction between symbols and standard characters... | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I read the Rules, anything that is not an actual alphabetic letter is considered a "symbol".
EDIT: add "or numbers" after alphabetic letters.
Most cell phones make the same distinction.
Much as I don't like it because it contradicts the concept of entering exactly what you see on the cover as the title, the Rules clearly require the title to be entered as 'I Spy'.
However, locally, I would enter it as:
Title = I-Spy
Original Title = I Spy
Sort Title = I Spy | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
As I read the Rules, anything that is not an actual alphabetic letter is considered a "symbol".
Most cell phones make the same distinction.
Much as I don't like it because it contradicts the concept of entering exactly what you see on the cover as the title, the Rules clearly require the title to be entered as 'I Spy'.
However, locally, I would enter it as:
Title = I-Spy
Original Title = I Spy
Sort Title = I Spy Where in the rules is talked about alphabetic letters? I just see the using of the terms 'symbols' and 'standard characters'... | | | | Cor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Formerly known as...: Quote:
If the Rules count it as one, then it's effectively saying convert a hyphen in to a hyphen which would be silly. Therefore, I have to take it, that they don't count it as one, simply a "standard character". No, that is not what the rule is effectively saying. Here is the rule again: For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"The rule uses the phrase 'or other symbols'. This is important because the use of the word 'other'...not the same one or ones already mentioned...means that everything mentioned prior is considered a symbol. That means both periods and dashes are considered symbols. The way I read it, anything that is not a letter or a number, is considered a symbol. This point is further driven home by the 'standard characters' listed in the last line of the rule. You will note that they include a period, along with the dash and the asterisk, in that line which means a period is both a symbol and a standard character. I mean, you can't convert a period to a period, right? What this rule is telling us is that we only include the symbols...even if they are standard characters...when they are included in the three sections mentioned in the rule. Conversion only comes into play when the symbol isn't a standard character. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Corne | | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
| Registered: April 5, 2007 | | Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Formerly known as...:
Quote:
If the Rules count it as one, then it's effectively saying convert a hyphen in to a hyphen which would be silly. Therefore, I have to take it, that they don't count it as one, simply a "standard character".
No, that is not what the rule is effectively saying. Here is the rule again:
For titles which include periods, dashes, or other symbols, check the credit block on the back of the case if included. If not, check the film credits or opening sequence. Use these to determine whether to exclude or convert the symbol to a standard character such as ".", "-", or "*"
The rule uses the phrase 'or other symbols'. This is important because the use of the word 'other'...not the same one or ones already mentioned...means that everything mentioned prior is considered a symbol. That means both periods and dashes are considered symbols. The way I read it, anything that is not a letter or a number, is considered a symbol.
This point is further driven home by the 'standard characters' listed in the last line of the rule. You will note that they include a period, along with the dash and the asterisk, in that line which means a period is both a symbol and a standard character. I mean, you can't convert a period to a period, right?
What this rule is telling us is that we only include the symbols...even if they are standard characters...when they are included in the three sections mentioned in the rule. Conversion only comes into play when the symbol isn't a standard character. I read it differently, sorry... We can argue and make the same point over and over again in this topic now but I won't. I've made my point and explained how I came to the conclusion. I respect your opinion and how you're reading the rules. I hope you'll respect mine. BTW I'm glad I don't have this title in my collection  | | | | Cor | | | | Last edited: by Corne |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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