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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Tora! Tora! Tora! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I read rules as you do. But for once, it seems that everybody agree to violate them in this case, the first time I see some common sense here... Please don't accuse people of agreeing to violate the rules when that isn't the case. Speaking for myself, as I noted in my posts, I don't think it is against the rules. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't either, for what it's worth. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
I don't either, for what it's worth. Rules : For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Role" and "Credited As" columns. If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. Can we consider "American sequences directed by" as a direct translation of "directed by" ? For me, it is just a restriction. Once again, or we apply rules strictly, or we allow people to be intelligent. I'm happy that people are intelligent here, but why not in other cases of interpretation of the rules ??? | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting gardibolt:
Quote:
I don't either, for what it's worth.
Rules : For each category, include only those people credited with the roles listed in the "Role" and "Credited As" columns. If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section.
Can we consider "American sequences directed by" as a direct translation of "directed by" ?
For me, it is just a restriction. Once again, or we apply rules strictly, or we allow people to be intelligent. I'm happy that people are intelligent here, but why not in other cases of interpretation of the rules ??? As I said in my response to Rho, the credit 'American Sequences Directed by' includes the allowed role of 'Directed by', so there is no direct translation required. For me, this is no different than any other credit that gives us additional information or doesn't match exactly. Photographed in TECHNICOLOR by = Photographed by = Cinematographer Original Story by = Story by Written for the Screen by = Screenwriter Written and Directed by* = Both Writer and Director * I include this credit because 'Written and Directed by' is not listed in either the Role or Credited As columns, yet we always enter that as two credits. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
For me, this is no different than any other credit that gives us additional information or doesn't match exactly.
Photographed in TECHNICOLOR by = Photographed by = Cinematographer
Original Story by = Story by
Written for the Screen by = Screenwriter
... So co directed by = directed by ??? and what about the note "Do not include Directors of Special Features". What are limits of special features ??? Though I totally agree that your examples are in the spirit of rules, they are not in the letter. So do we apply rules strictly, or do we interpret them when common sense say us to do so ? | | | | Images from movies | | | | Last edited: by surfeur51 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
So co directed by = directed by ??? Since 'Co-Director' is listed in the Incorrect Roles column, that would be no. Quote:
and what about the note "Do not include Directors of Special Features". What are limits of special features ??? As I have always understood it, 'special features' are the extras on the disc, not the main feature. The American Sequences, for the Japanese Cut, and the Japanese Sequences, for the theatrical cut, are part of the main feature so that note does not apply. Quote:
Though I totally agree that your examples are in the spirit of rules, they are not in the letter. So do we apply rules strictly, or do we interpret them when common sense say us to do so ? In your opinion, they are not in the letter. In my opinion, they are, so I don't worry about it. You don't have to agree, and I am not trying to convince you. The only issue I have is that you claimed I, and everyone who shared my opinion...that this credit is allowed...were agreeing to violating the rules. As I said, I don't believe I am. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As I said in my response to Rho, the credit 'American Sequences Directed by' includes the allowed role of 'Directed by', so there is no direct translation required.
For me, this is no different than any other credit that gives us additional information or doesn't match exactly.
Photographed in TECHNICOLOR by = Photographed by = Cinematographer
Original Story by = Story by
Written for the Screen by = Screenwriter
Written and Directed by* = Both Writer and Director
* I include this credit because 'Written and Directed by' is not listed in either the Role or Credited As columns, yet we always enter that as two credits. Strictly according to the rules all of your examples are not valid. But I as well see all of those examples contributed on a regular basis. This just shows that "exactly as credited" does not work with crew credits in our system. Another reason why I do advocate to allow functional equivalents and role name variants. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Strictly according to the rules all of your examples are not valid. But I as well see all of those examples contributed on a regular basis. This just shows that "exactly as credited" does not work with crew credits in our system. Another reason why I do advocate to allow functional equivalents and role name variants. That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it, in my opinion, they are valid. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Strictly according to the rules all of your examples are not valid. But I as well see all of those examples contributed on a regular basis. This just shows that "exactly as credited" does not work with crew credits in our system. Another reason why I do advocate to allow functional equivalents and role name variants.
That is your opinion, and you are welcome to it, in my opinion, they are valid. The wording of the rules could only allow those roles as direct translations. If we agree that those are direct translations, then any other functional equivalent would go as direct translation as well. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
The wording of the rules could only allow those roles as direct translations. If we agree that those are direct translations, then any other functional equivalent would go as direct translation as well. Again, in your opinion. My opinion, as I have already explained, is different. Clearly, you don't agree, and I have already accepted that, so I see no point in continuing to go around in circles. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As I said in my response to Rho, the credit 'American Sequences Directed by' includes the allowed role of 'Directed by', so there is no direct translation required. Similarly, the credit of "Associate Producer" includes the allowed role of "Producer", so... Depending on how you look at it, the credit of "Sound Effects Editor" even includes the allowed role of "Sound Editor". And so on... I really have no interest in arguing about this - I'll happily track whatever I deem worth tracking in my local database - but I just want to say: be careful what you wish for. If this line of reasoning is applied accross the board, then you've suddenly declared a whole bunch of stuff we've never ever wanted before as valid. I think much of the problem is that many users seem hesitant to make use of the local-only "custom crew" option. It seems that whenever someone sees a credit they feel warrants inclusion, they're not just happy with the ability to list it locally using that "custom crew" option, but instead they feel the need to contribute it - regardless of whatever "creative interpreting" of the rules is needed to allow that. I've never understood why: I track tons of stuff locally, many entries of which I am absolutely dead certain that they really belong in the online database since they're exactly the people the rules are looking for. But they just didn't get one of the exact labels listed as valid in the crew credits table - so I use "custom crew". Everybody happy, I'd have thought. Rather than trying to spin the rules into allowing pretty much everything, I'm perfectly happy to keep some things local. That's exactly the beauty of the custom crew option: you can list whoever you want, and it doesn't hurt your ability to contribute. Rather than each of us trying to force their own creative interpretation onto the online database, why can't we just track the crew that is listed as valid in the crew credits table and store any additional things of interest locally? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the entire point of having a strict list of "valid" jobs and a "custom crew" option for the rest? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Threads such as this is what keeps me far away from doing crew credits... just reading this thread gives me a head ache... much like trying to read the rules for crew. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
As I said in my response to Rho, the credit 'American Sequences Directed by' includes the allowed role of 'Directed by', so there is no direct translation required.
Similarly, the credit of "Associate Producer" includes the allowed role of "Producer", so... Depending on how you look at it, the credit of "Sound Effects Editor" even includes the allowed role of "Sound Editor". And so on... I really have no interest in arguing about this - I'll happily track whatever I deem worth tracking in my local database - but I just want to say: be careful what you wish for. If this line of reasoning is applied accross the board, then you've suddenly declared a whole bunch of stuff we've never ever wanted before as valid. The difference between your examples and mine is that mine aren't different roles. 'American Sequences' adds context to the role of 'Directed by' as it tells us what part of the film he directed. That being said, I don't have the power to declare anything valid. All I can do is offer my opinion and contribute based on how I read the rules...which is all any of us can do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
The difference between your examples and mine is that mine aren't different roles. I think they are (entirely) different roles, and there's the problem: these things aren't set in stone, and there will be different opinions. Of course everyone always feels that their opinion is the right one, so there will always remain different opinions on what are and what aren't different roles, and the rules have to draw the line somewhere. Here's the way I see it: rather than simply dismissing any other opinion than my own on such matters - even when I'm right - I try to keep "questionable" stuff like this local. Again, as far as I'm concerned this is exactly the kind of stuff where we've gotten the "custom crew" option for. Look, even when you can make your case for one particular example, I'm sure you're able to see how a stance like this leads to problems in the long run - that's all I tried to point out. You can be sure of this one particular example, but to many casual users seeing that, it'll be "ah, okay, so that's how it works, if it's the same (or even a similar) job I can enter the guy, no matter the exact label". The intricate decision you've made on one particular case will get lost, and the idea that any job label, no matter whether it's listed in the crew credits table or not, is okay as long as you're confident enough that you're right will remain. That is, IMHO, the key. You're adamant that you're right on this, and that this particular credit can go in. Now, I haven't looked into this particular example, so I'm not going to argue it's validity with you. You may well be right, and faced with something like it, I may very well track that same credit in my database as well - albeit using custom crew. But it's not about that. My point is just that with your stance, you're opening the floodgates for anyone else saying "well, this credit isn't listed in the crew credits table either, but I'm sure it should go in regardless". Even if you're confident that you can make that call on occasion, are you sure that everyone can make that call, on any crew subject, all the time - and do you really want them to? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
The wording of the rules could only allow those roles as direct translations. If we agree that those are direct translations, then any other functional equivalent would go as direct translation as well.
Again, in your opinion. My opinion, as I have already explained, is different. Clearly, you don't agree, and I have already accepted that, so I see no point in continuing to go around in circles. This is about the wording of the rules and not about my or your opinion. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
The difference between your examples and mine is that mine aren't different roles. 'American Sequences' adds context to the role of 'Directed by' as it tells us what part of the film he directed. What about the earlier quoted 'underwater sequences directed by'? Is this the same role as well? It does add context, doesn't it. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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