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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Group Dividers |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: September 11, 2010 | | Posts: 42 |
| | Posted: | | | | The rules state (for ease of reference): Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. (emphasis added) That being true, it seems reasonable to use a divider if the information you collate from the film would satisfy the further rule regarding the use of Dividers: Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". The overarching rule on the use of Dividers states: Quote:
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
(emphasis added) So here, we seem to have a logical grouping derived from the film source. My reading of the Rules strongly suggests the use of Dividers is appropriate. Regards. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | 2001 uses genuine non-standard credits and tjhat portion of the rules applies,my friend.If a film does not have standard credits, use the following rules:
* If a film has actors listed in the opening credits, which are not listed in the end credits, add these to the list in DVD Profiler before those taken from the end credits.
* If a film has no end credits, but does have actors credited elsewhere, enter the actors from those credits.
* If there are no credits, the film's official site may be used as a source, as long as the inclusion does not violate the site's published policy (if any).
* If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited."
Specifically the last paragraph, now the Rule is silent as regards to possible divider use, but the use of said dividers will create a unique dataset to profiler and break any and all connection to other sites. Which is a very definite positive. Unfortunately instead of applying the rules, you like to try and mix and match in your parsing calling for spaces and so on which simply do not apply in this instance. It would be nice if there was actually something regards to dividers in this section, but then at the same time 2001 is rather unusual in this regard, perhaps it could also be applied to The Ten Commandments, Ben-Hur and so forth which also use non-standard credits as defined by profiler,, but I have yet to look at that possibility. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting J68: Quote:
The rules state (for ease of reference):
Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. (emphasis added)
That being true, it seems reasonable to use a divider if the information you collate from the film would satisfy the further rule regarding the use of Dividers:
Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
The overarching rule on the use of Dividers states:
Quote:
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
(emphasis added)
So here, we seem to have a logical grouping derived from the film source. My reading of the Rules strongly suggests the use of Dividers is appropriate.
Regards. If you tie in the Divider with the Non-Standard Cast Rule then it woiuld seem perfectly reasonable to use dividers in a film such as 2001. Well done J68, couldn't have said it better myself. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting J68: Quote:
The rules state (for ease of reference):
Quote:
If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited. (emphasis added)
That being true, it seems reasonable to use a divider if the information you collate from the film would satisfy the further rule regarding the use of Dividers:
Quote:
Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast".
The overarching rule on the use of Dividers states:
Quote:
Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings. Wherever possible, these groupings should mirror the film credits.
(emphasis added)
So here, we seem to have a logical grouping derived from the film source. My reading of the Rules strongly suggests the use of Dividers is appropriate.
Regards. I can see where you are coming from, but I just don't agree as that rule deals only with roles. I doesn't seem, at least to me, that the divider rule allows for a user created group. Perhaps we should start a poll to see what the general consensus is... | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Specifically the last paragraph, now the Rule is silent as regards to possible divider use, but the use of said dividers will create a unique dataset to profiler and break any and all connection to other sites. Which is a very definite positive. Unfortunately instead of applying the rules, you like to try and mix and match in your parsing calling for spaces and so on which simply do not apply in this instance. It would be nice if there was actually something regards to dividers in this section, but then at the same time 2001 is rather unusual in this regard, perhaps it could also be applied to The Ten Commandments, Ben-Hur and so forth which also use non-standard credits as defined by profiler,, but I have yet to look at that possibility. How can I apply a rule that, by your own admission, doesn't exist?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Martian see the comment by J68 and we are talking a Divider Role.I my local they are Apes.<scratching head> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
Martian see the comment by J68 and we are talking a Divider Role.I my local they are Apes.<scratching head> I saw his comment, and even commented on it, but that doesn't answer my question. You said, and I quote, "now the Rule is silent as regards to possible divider use" then said I wasn't applying the rules. Again I ask, how can I apply a rule that doesn't exist? Now that I reread your post, you also claim that I am "calling for spaces and so on which simply do not apply in this instance." When did I call for 'spaces and so on' as I don't recall saying anything of the kind. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: September 11, 2010 | | Posts: 42 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
I can see where you are coming from, but I just don't agree as that rule deals only with roles. Hi, Divider rules and Cast rules are inextricably linked - I'd be interested in your view as to where I have erred in my explanation. I could then clarify my thinking further. Thanks. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting J68: Quote:
Hi,
Divider rules and Cast rules are inextricably linked - I'd be interested in your view as to where I have erred in my explanation. I could then clarify my thinking further.
Thanks. While the divider rule does say, "Dividers allow the segregation of cast and crew into logical groupings," we don't use dividers unless there is one in the credits. What I mean is, the following is a logical grouping that we often see in credits. John Smith as Soldier Jane Doe as Soldier Fran Jones as Soldier We don't use a divider in that case, because the credits didn't use one, so why would we do it when it is a user created logical grouping? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is where i disagree with you.It is not a user created logical the grouping. The grouping was provided by Stanley Kubrick, he did not provide a Role,that is all. That is where i think your logic falters, in calling it a user generated grouping...it is nothing of the kind. It is a group of Actors fromthe film credits and they all happen to be playing Apes...that simple. If my meemory serves the Ape actors are also listed on the Same title card. I am gong to check this stack and see if my BD 2001 is here,maybe it's not packed. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Lucked out my BD is not packed, will report back. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Winston Smith: Quote:
There is where i disagree with you.It is not a user created logical the grouping. The grouping was provided by Stanley Kubrick, he did not provide a Role,that is all. That is where i think your logic falters, in calling it a user generated grouping...it is nothing of the kind. It is a group of Actors fromthe film credits and they all happen to be playing Apes...that simple. If my meemory serves the Ape actors are also listed on the Same title card. I am gong to check this stack and see if my BD 2001 is here,maybe it's not packed. The logical grouping only exists if they are all given the same role. Since the user, not Kubrick, is providing that role, it is user created. Let me ask you another question, since you ignored that part of my post, had Kubrick given them all the individual role of 'ape', would you be advocating that a divider be used? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No,I would not. There is a indeed a logical grouping all of the Ape Actors appear on the last title card, it is titled With, I think you know that I would not favor a With Divider, though some might. They allplay same role and to me the crucial point is that use of the divider makes the data set unique to Profiler, instead of obviously copied from somewhere...that is an important distinction, Ill take every chance I can get to separate our data from someone else. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: September 11, 2010 | | Posts: 42 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Let me ask you another question, since you ignored that part of my post, had Kubrick given them all the individual role of 'ape', would you be advocating that a divider be used? I can't get excited about the individual crediting of actors to a particular role as described in your example, but that is the rule. But here, if the non standard cast rule has any value at all, then this is an example of where it should be used. Regarding the use of a Divider or not, I would say that if the actors have the same role, and we are interested in that role, then they should be grouped rather than listed individually. That seems to provide the required information, whilst also showing a measure of respect to the way that the actual credits were done. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting J68: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Let me ask you another question, since you ignored that part of my post, had Kubrick given them all the individual role of 'ape', would you be advocating that a divider be used?
I can't get excited about the individual crediting of actors to a particular role as described in your example, but that is the rule. But here, if the non standard cast rule has any value at all, then this is an example of where it should be used. The value of this particular non-standard cast rule, is that it gives us the ability to include a role even if it isn't listed in the credits. Quote:
Regarding the use of a Divider or not, I would say that if the actors have the same role, and we are interested in that role, then they should be grouped rather than listed individually. In my opinion, since we are interested in the role, that information should go into the field designed to hold it...the 'role' field. Quote:
that seems to provide the required information, whilst also showing a measure of respect to the way that the actual credits were done. This I don't understand. How is adding a divider, one that doesn't exist in the credits, showing more respect than adding a role that doesn't exist in the credits? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Funny I understand exactly what J68 is saying. And further he is right | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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