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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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'Based on an Original Story By'? |
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Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,851 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: 'Chicken Run' isn't based on a previously published story, but instead Peter Lord and Nick Park wrote the story for the film. That's exactly what "Story By" is meant for. Have you read the original story? What if the final screenplay is only loosely based on that original story? The "story" may not have even made it on screen intact. If this is the case (and I don't know) then OMB would be perfectly appropriate, as well as proper within the rules. --------------- |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Unfortunately, this can be said for many of our credits. Sometimes they perform the same job, and get different credits, other times, because we 'shoehorn', they can recieve the exact same credit even if they do a completely different job. Granted. It's just that in this particular case, it really doesn't need to be a problem. We're speaking about two different "jobs", and we've got two different fields to put them in. We don't have that luxury for most of those many other credits you're referring to - that's the difference. For many other credits, we have no choice but to shoehorn, but here the program actually provides us with with two different credits to handle two different jobs. So that's what I do in my database: an actual screen story gets a "Story By" credit, and any other "original material" gets an OMB credit. Result: the "original material by" and "story by" credits in my database actually have meaning, and aren't interchangeable. Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote: I suggest to go by the credits, and don't bother whether they are correct or not. This I understand - I already acknowledged that doing so is indeed easier, and I understand the wish not to burden the users with researching and deciding whether something qualifies for one or the other. I get all that. I'm just pointing out that it has resulted in "Story By" having no real meaning anymore. |
| | Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: 'Chicken Run' isn't based on a previously published story, but instead Peter Lord and Nick Park wrote the story for the film. That's exactly what "Story By" is meant for. Have you read the original story?
What if the final screenplay is only loosely based on that original story? The "story" may not have even made it on screen intact. If this is the case (and I don't know) then OMB would be perfectly appropriate, as well as proper within the rules.
--------------- There's indeed a screenwriter credit as well. | | | Cor | | | Last edited: by Corne |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: There's indeed a screenwriter credit as well. As is normally the case with all "story by" and "original material by" credits... | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting Corne:
Quote: There's indeed a screenwriter credit as well. As is normally the case with all "story by" and "original material by" credits... What makes you so sure that the story is written specifically for the film? Maybe the film is just loosely based on that original story; At first a story that they wrote down without the intention to make a film out of it. It's all guessing. There's also a reason why the credit is 'Based on an Original Story By' and not just 'Story By'. We can do some research and one may or may not find the reason, it doesn't matter because the rules are clear. And rightly so because if every contributor just makes guesses it will get messy. | | | Cor |
| Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,087 |
| Posted: | | | | I think it has reasons they write "based on a original story by" and not "story by" so I go for OMB. And even if not: We should go for the credits and not assumptions or further reasearch, so still OMB. |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: What makes you so sure that the story is written specifically for the film? Research. Quoting Corne: Quote: There's also a reason why the credit is 'Based on an Original Story By' and not just 'Story By'. No, there is not. Those labels are completely interchangeable. The fact that the credits block (not just on this particular DVD, but all of them, including the original theatrical poster), while irrelevant for our purposes, shows this as "Story By" only further underlines this. Extensive experience with hundreds of other story-credits shows the same thing: there is absolutely no consistency in whether the credits use 'Based on an Original Story By' or 'Story By'. Since these labels are completely interchangeable, you can't deduct any "meaning" from them. Sure, you can choose to assign the DVD Profiler credit to it based purely on the choice of label, I won't argue with that, but you do need to understand that it has no meaning whatsoever. Quoting VirusPil: Quote: I think it has reasons they write "based on a original story by" and not "story by" Unfortunately, it has not. It would be lovely if that were true, but it's not. See my response to Corne above. There's no reason. Quote: And even if not: We should go for the credits and not assumptions or further reasearch Yes, as stated before, I fully understand "don't bother whether they are correct or not". No need to convince me: I get it. I'm just pointing out that it has resulted in "Story By" having no real meaning anymore. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,087 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: ... No need to convince me: I get it. ... Wasn't my intend. I was just telling my opinion to the op. |
| Registered: May 26, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,879 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting Corne:
Quote: There's also a reason why the credit is 'Based on an Original Story By' and not just 'Story By'. No, there is not. Those labels are completely interchangeable. No, they are not. They might be for this film. But they are not universally interchangeable. The way I see it, "Story by" should go for story treatments written directly for the film or television. I have seen many of these. I'm sure you have too. But if it says "Based on the story by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle" that's OMB. Conan Doyle did not write for the film, he wrote for Strand magazine. And I have seen Holmes films with the credit given in that way. The presence of the word "story" does not make it a "Story by" credit. (I know this isn't a Holmes film, but it's an easy example) It is unfortunate that this film is likely a "Story by" credit that uses the wording of an OMB credit. However, until the rules allow for outside research to support a role change we must go by what is on screen. That means they are entered as OMB. Admittedly, I would be all for changing the rules to allow changing certain things with the use of documented outside research, but that is a topic for another place and time. And how that kind of wording would work out I have no clue. | | | If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -- Thorin Oakenshield | | | Last edited: by Danae Cassandra |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Danae Cassandra: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: Quoting Corne:
Quote: There's also a reason why the credit is 'Based on an Original Story By' and not just 'Story By'. No, there is not. Those labels are completely interchangeable. No, they are not. They might be for this film. But they are not universally interchangeable. They shouldn't be, and they aren't in my database. But filmmakers do use these labels pretty much willy-nilly, referring to both "jobs". That's the entire problem. Quote: The way I see it, "Story by" should go for story treatments written directly for the film or television. I agree. Quote: I have seen many of these. I'm sure you have too. Indeed. Quote: But if it says "Based on the story by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle" that's OMB. Conan Doyle did not write for the film, he wrote for Strand magazine. And I have seen Holmes films with the credit given in that way. The presence of the word "story" does not make it a "Story by" credit. (I know this isn't a Holmes film, but it's an easy example) I agree: indeed, the presence of the word "story" does not make it a "Story by" credit. Sir Conan Doyle, in your example, should indeed get an OMB credit. Again, I agree 100% with what you're saying. Quote: It is unfortunate that this film is likely a "Story by" credit that uses the wording of an OMB credit. That's pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say. It's unfortunate that this film does that, and there are many, many more of such examples. Since we can't award half of what really should be "Story by" credits their proper credit, our "Story by" has become pretty meaningless. Quote: However, until the rules allow for outside research to support a role change we must go by what is on screen. That means they are entered as OMB. Again, that I understand. We know it's incorrect data, but we don't care - it's easier to just follow the label. Quote: Admittedly, I would be all for changing the rules to allow changing certain things with the use of documented outside research, but that is a topic for another place and time. And how that kind of wording would work out I have no clue. That is, again, pretty much exactly the point (the only point) I've been trying to make. The way we currently handle this means that the distinction between the "Story by" credit and the "Original Material by" credit is basically lost, since, depending on the label used on the screen, we use both labels for both jobs. |
| Registered: March 20, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,851 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting Danae Cassandra:
Quote: However, until the rules allow for outside research to support a role change we must go by what is on screen. That means they are entered as OMB. Again, that I understand. We know it's incorrect data, but we don't care - it's easier to just follow the label. This indicates to me that "Story by", "Screen Story by", and "Based on a Story by" are not the same thing: Quote: 2. "Story by"
(See Section III. A.4)
Story credit may not be shared by more than two writers.
A story may be written in story form or may be contained within other literary material, such as a treatment or a screenplay, for purposes of receiving a "Story by" credit.
3. "Screen Story by"
(See Section III. A.5)
Screen Story credit may not be shared by more than two writers.
If the writer is furnished source material but takes from it only a springboard, a characterization, an incident or some equally limited contribution, creating a substantially new and different story from the source material, he/she may receive "Screen Story by" credit but only as the result of arbitration. In such cases, the author of the source material may be given credit that specifies the form in which such material was acquired -- for instance, "From a Play by," "From a Novel by," "From a Saturday Evening Post Story by," "From a Series of Articles by," "Based on a Story by," etc. Link--------------- |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote: This indicates to me that "Story by", "Screen Story by", and "Based on a Story by" are not the same thing They're not, indeed. Now, if only we could get the filmmakers to actually stick to these definitions - any set of definitions, really. Unfortunately, they don't. Not to mention the confusion that arises with films from any country other than the U.S., let alone those of which the credits aren't in English... |
| Registered: June 21, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,621 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: Quoting northbloke:
Quote: It doesn't matter what's on the cover, if it says "based on a story by" in the credits then it's OMB. Otherwise we'd have to start second-guessing all "based on" credits and that would get very messy! Northbloke is correct. The use of the words 'Based on', make it an OMB credit, for Profiler purposes.
With the exception of OCB, anything that begins with 'Base on' is OMB. This was added to the rules to remove any ambiguity and keep people from having to do what bigdaddy does. Rackerfrackinstackintackinjackin. Do all that extra work and still wrong? Insert uppercase explitive here! At least i learned soething today, thanks for that. |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting bigdaddyhorse: Quote: Do all that extra work and still wrong? Well, actually your extra work did result in correct data. It's most certainly not "wrong", it's just that as far as the online database is concerned, it doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong - the online database just tracks the label someone is given, not the actual job they performed. |
| | Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: the online database just tracks the label someone is given, not the actual job they performed. Welcome in the land of the living. | | | Cor |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Corne: Quote: Welcome in the land of the living. Or the land of the braindead, of course - it's all in the eye of the beholder... |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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