Quoting CharlieM:

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If the subtitle is selectable via menu (without changing settings on the player) then it should be included in the subtitles section.  This would include SDH, since it is selectable via subtitle menu.

Intermediate subtitles, put in to translate a language otherr than native for short periods should not.

The problem is those aren't mutually exclusive. The subtitles for the French translation of Napoleon Dynamite are menu-selectable, but onyl translate on-screen text.

Some peopel are conflating two separate issues: the content of the tracks and how they are selectable. I would say to be included tracks must be viewable with the ordinary language setting for that region, either burned-in, menu selectable, or accessiible through the subtitle button and translate the movie fully enough that person who only speaks the language of the subtitle could understand it.

Quoting CharlieM:

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But I think you misunderstand.

Let's say that it is a region 1 movie.

A lot of region 1 movies have English, French, Spanish, English SDH.  These are usually selectable via a menu, or through the button for subtitles on the remote.

In the middle of the movie, the main character is in china town.  He does speak Chinese and converses with a store owner in Chinese.  During this short period, the English translation is shown on the screen.  Only for that per se 5 minutes of the movie.  This is not what is intended for subtitles in profiler

I understand that. My beef is that you said that such situations shouldn't be listed, but menu-selectable subtitles should be. Sometimes such subtitles are menu selectable.

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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Annoyingly, no one has come out and said that subtitle tracks which only track on-screen text should be profiled and made a defense of it, yet my contribution to remove such a track is 3 to 1 against.

And if it is not menu selectable i would absolutely agree with those opposed.

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Quoting DarklyNoon:

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We should not forget the subtitles on old Hong Kong DVDs, they have burned in subtitles, means they are not selectable, they are always there for the whole film, I am always contributing those too,a s do all other Hong Kong DVD collectors

And correctly so. This indeed disqualifies the "it has to be selectable from the menu" line of reasoning.

Quoting Woola:

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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:

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Annoyingly, no one has come out and said that subtitle tracks which only track on-screen text should be profiled and made a defense of it, yet my contribution to remove such a track is 3 to 1 against.

And if it is not menu selectable i would absolutely agree with those opposed.

Actually, it is the attempt to remove a menu-selectable option that is being opposed

Quoting Woola:

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Correct tweeter.

So if you are saying that menu-selectability is the criterion, could you please explain why? I would think the relevevant thing is whether the movie is actually subtitled.

Quoting Woola:

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DVDProfiler not MovieProfiler, Ace. very simple, and Easter Egg subs are Easter Eggs. it's really very simple.

A sub which translates a German road sign and nothing else is movie generated.

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I'm sorry. I am unclear on what you are arguing about. Could you please state clearly what your position is on which subtitles shoudl be listed and justify it either with the rules or by explaining how this standard is useful or some combination of the two?

To re-iterate my position: subtitles are on-screen text (separate from the photographed image) which allow a speaker of that language to follow the movie in its entirety even if they don't understand the audio track. Anything which is accessible by ordinary means (which would include default setting, the subtitle button on the remote and the menu, but exclude changing the player's language settings) would be included and everything else would be excluded.

As far as I can tell, the rules are silent on the matter, so I am basing this on usefulness. If you feel this is wrong in some way and you have an idea that would better fit the rules or make more sense to the end user, please ellucidate me.

You must separate film attributes from DVD attributes. ou correctly described DVD Subs up to a point. The easter Egg subs require changing of the Player settings from what I have seen.

There are three possible DVD attributes for Subtitles
1) Menu Selectable (this will cover MOST subs)
2) Settings via Player-These are generally going to be covered by Easter Eggs
3) CC-which requires special electronis or software to decode the CC signal which appears on the disc-This is a Feature

The subs you seem to be wanting Ace are forced subs which are not an attribute ofthe DVD but of the film. They are typically used to translate something which MAY not be in the language of the viewer and they are very different from regular subs since they are not an attribute of the DVD.

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