I agree with Unicus and Skip on this one Karsten. Music written specifically for the film cannot in any means possible be composed by Mozart or Beethoven, as they were long dead when man began making movies...

Even if the film is called "Amadeus"  (or "Magic Flute") and consists only of music written by Mozart, you cannot claim that the music was written specifically for the film (which is the only music allowed per rules) - the film was made based on Mozart's work, but the music is not original....

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting karstenp:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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... as it makes the data meaningless.

Sorry! I do not agree! The data is NOT meaningless, in the examples given.

I think you missed my point.  I didn't mean the data itself was meaningless.  If you lump composers, of music that was used in a film, in with composers who wrote music for the film, the data no longer has any meaning.  It just becomes a list of composers.

As I said, twice now, I do understand the desire to track them.  Lots of good musicals were turned into good films, and it would be nice to track the composer of those musicals.  What I am agains, and I believe the rules back me up because 'original score' has a meaning in the film industry, is forcing credits into areas that they do not belong.

I actually happen to agree with Unicus, Skip & Berak as well, even if I do want to track these composers.  The Ingmar Bergman film To Joy makes extensive use of music from Beethoven & M.  But I think the current options are not truly appropriate for them - even though Beethoven is credited in To Joy as 'Music By' or something like that (credits are in Swedish, after all, poor English speaker that I am).

However, I do think exceptions should be made for opera, ballet and symphony performances that happen to make it to DVD.  I have in my collection, for example, the Prokofiev ballet Romeo and Juliet performed by Fonteyn & Nureyev.  Kultur Video has performances of Mozart's opera [i]Don Giovanni[i] available.  In cases like this I think the composer in question should be credited.  Even if we have to give him an OMB credit (though I actually think he should be credited in music).

But for general films that use portions of a composer's work, I don't think we should credit.  Much like using "The Times They Are a Changin'" in Watchmen doesn't get Bob Dylan a credit. 

I just wanted to make certain that was correct, according to the rules.

Quoting Berak:

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Even if the film is called "Amadeus"  (or "Magic Flute") and consists only of music written by Mozart, you cannot claim that the music was written specifically for the film (which is the only music allowed per rules) - the film was made based on Mozart's work, but the music is not original....

Let me, at least tell you the difference between the two films mentioned, in case that might explain my view.

"Amadeus": Consists of music made by Mozart, and G.B. Pergolesi.  ( The "Requiem" part might even consist of music written by Süssmayr, as Mozart probably did not finish his composition before his death. )The Pergolesi music is in the movie played at a church service attended by Salieri as a child, not neccessarily historically correct, and obviously not written in my Mozart.
The music of Mozart is NOT presented in chronological order, nor did anyone claim it was instructed to be played in this order by Mozart. Although he was a genious (imho) I do not think he ever thought a single second of gaining Oscars. Mozart did NOT compose the music FOR "Amadeus". But MOST of the music USED in Amadeus.
Nor did Mr. B. write for "To Joy" ("Till glädje")

"The Magic Flute" on the other hand (at least all my different copies, i.e. Bergman's, Branagh's a.o.) consists of music solely made by M. It is a single composition ( Köchel  620 ) The order of the parts is divided in the same way M. instructed. Mozart DID compose the music for TMF, which later was filmed.

The difference of "TMF" and, let's say "Sound of Music", is maybe only the year of the composition.
SoM has credit for composer in the base, even if it originally was a musical, not a film score.

The rules tell me Composer is Credited As: "Music by, Music Composed by, Score by, Score Composed by" but sadly no reference to Oscars etc. If Invelos do not want composers before 1929 (AA) I think that easily could be written into the rules.

I think it is a pity Invelos can not state their decisions/intentions more often, in stead of us imagine, interpret, claim etc.

Quoting Danae Cassandra:

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However, I do think exceptions should be made for opera, ballet and symphony performances that happen to make it to DVD.

Exactly! Do not even require new program code *), only (maybe) TEXT in the rules. (So we do not need debate)
*) My belief is that we will se "new program code" on monday 

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting karstenp:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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... as it makes the data meaningless.

Sorry! I do not agree! The data is NOT meaningless, in the examples given.

I think you missed my point.  I didn't mean the data itself was meaningless.  If you lump composers, of music that was used in a film, in with composers who wrote music for the film, the data no longer has any meaning.  It just becomes a list of composers.

As I said, twice now, I do understand the desire to track them.  Lots of good musicals were turned into good films, and it would be nice to track the composer of those musicals.  What I am agains, and I believe the rules back me up because 'original score' has a meaning in the film industry, is forcing credits into areas that they do not belong.

Maybe we need something like OMB, for music.

Quoting karstenp:

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The rules tell me Composer is Credited As: "Music by, Music Composed by, Score by, Score Composed by" but sadly no reference to Oscars etc. If Invelos do not want composers before 1929 (AA) I think that easily could be written into the rules.

The rules also tell you that the credit is "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score."  That, is a reference to a film term used by the Oscars.  You can ignore that if you like, but it is there. 

Quoting Unicus69:

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The rules also tell you that the credit is "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score."  That, is a reference to a film term used by the Oscars.  You can ignore that if you like, but it is there. 

Unicus: I do not agree that  I am ingnoring this at all!  Not to my knowledge, and intend, that is. The other way round, I take this quite serious.
Maybe my knowledge of English/American language, - specifically in terms of interpretations isn't fit for the rules. Sorry. Then I apologize for still beeing confused and creating post basically arguing the same points. Please tell me why "Sound of Music" deserves Composer credit in terms of DVDP.
Because it could have got Oscars, even though it was based on a musical? Strange! 

"Film term used by the Oscars" don't exclude other references/interpretations. In my opinion.
Why not get Invelos to be more specific? So even I can understand.
( Well, then the Forum might not be flooding over with these interpretation related discussions.  )

Quoting myself:

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The difference of "TMF" and, let's say "Sound of Music", is maybe only the year of the composition.
SoM has credit for composer in the base, even if it originally was a musical, not a film score.

At least one person read this comment...

You tell me that eg. M. is not "....composer of the film's Original Score".  Noted. 

Quoting karstenp:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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The rules also tell you that the credit is "Used for the composer of the film's Original Score."  That, is a reference to a film term used by the Oscars.  You can ignore that if you like, but it is there. 

Unicus: I do not agree that  I am ingnoring this at all!  Not to my knowledge, and intend, that is. The other way round, I take this quite serious.
Maybe my knowledge of English/American language, - specifically in terms of interpretations isn't fit for the rules. Sorry. Then I apologize for still beeing confused and creating post basically arguing the same points. Please tell me why "Sound of Music" deserves Composer credit in terms of DVDP.
Because it could have got Oscars, even though it was based on a musical? Strange! 

"Film term used by the Oscars" don't exclude other references/interpretations. In my opinion.
Why not get Invelos to be more specific? So even I can understand.
( Well, then the Forum might not be flooding over with these interpretation related discussions.  )

Quoting myself:

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The difference of "TMF" and, let's say "Sound of Music", is maybe only the year of the composition.
SoM has credit for composer in the base, even if it originally was a musical, not a film score.

At least one person read this comment...

You tell me that eg. M. is not "....composer of the film's Original Score".  Noted. 

No Karsten, you aren't ignoring. You are trying to rationalize and spin to get the data that YOU want. It was not provided for, maybe someday in the future but not now. You are ignoring those who have the information and are not providing you with the answer that you WANT to hear. It is that simple, you can do it locally, using the composer field if you wish, or using the Other field for the Role, that would allow you to Contribute without contributing thedata that deoes not at this time comply.  It's that simple, The Music for 2001 is not contributable today...maybe tomorrow.

Skip