Quoting Jubal:

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The best possible answer remains Open creds period, no more definitions, no more shoehorning, WYSIWYT.

While I agree that open crew credits would solve a lot of problems, it would also add thousands of new entries. I think that there has to be some degree of limitation to avoid having "pointless" credits. For example while the Director/Producer/Sound Editor might be important jobs, I'm not so sure that the person who served them their tea is really necessary.

Forget:

I know the problem only too well. I haven't figured out a way to resolve it. I run into Unicus comment, if someone sees value in tracking accountants...but we would need a system which would allow us to pick and choose exactly what data we want to track in our respective locals.

Skip

Quoting Addicted2DVD:

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I agree with Unicus and Skip on this one.

As for the open credits becoming a nightmare... That I agree with. But what I would like to see is open credits within the categories we have now. If they do not belong in any of the categories we have (or decide to add... if any) then they won't get added.

That could work, it would only add in a few extra roles instead of many.

Quoting Jubal:

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I run into Unicus comment, if someone sees value in tracking accountants...but we would need a system which would allow us to pick and choose exactly what data we want to track in our respective locals.

I don't see that this is any different to how we operate now, if someone wants the data in their local, they can add it there 

Quoting Danae Cassandra:

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And speaking of the various Visual Effects credits, should we enter Supervisor/Director/Designer when they are listed under the effects production company's set of credits?

I.E.:

SPECIAL EFFECTS COMPANY A
Visual Effects Director = Blah Bladiddy Blah

SPECIAL EFFECTS COMPANY B
Visual Effects Director = Yaddi Yaddah

etc.

Or just list these roles if they are listed with the 'main' section of credits?

I've personally used dividers for this, so that the "main" cast are clearly indentified against those in other companies.
There is no real guidelines in the rules for the use of dividers for crew (except TV series), so thought it an appropriate use for them. All information is there, and nothing is "diluted".

Quoting Telecine:

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Agreed. Open credits would solve most of the current problems. If selective downloads of credits is enabled no one can complain.

Want to bet?!! 

Seriously though, if crew are submitted in sections dependent on job, i.e. sound, camera, SFX, makeup, etc... and you can then choose to download certain areas of job types then fair enough. If however you need to choose each person individually then no thanks!!! *shudder* 

Telecine:

You know what they used to say in Hollywood...."cast of THOUSANDS."        

Skip

That won't help much, nineehours, at least not in my objective to minimize or end arguments, a goal I have had for a very long time. Exactly what goes into the Art Dept, Sound Dept, etc, what about Unit crews and location crews and so on. And there will ALWAYS be something that someone will find and say "What about THIS of THAT? ...and here we go off to the races some more. Only open creds, WSIWYT will end the discussion. Wit WYSIWYT, you list as much data or as little data as you want to enter the ONLY Rule necessary is WSIWYT, I can anticipate some whining and arguing even with WSIWYT and I think you can too, they aren't new. The ONLY thing that needs top accompany sucgh a system is a users update ability to pick and choose only that data he is interested in.

I can also envision some potential problems with Open Creds, based on the behavior of some of our users now, I can see some user entering bogus data in a LOTR Cred list, based on the probably correct assumption that there is not more than two or three  users who would be likely to verify such a list, and even predict who those users would be, but that is another issue., the good news is that even IF such a user DOES exist, eventually he would be found out. Have i become cynical...you betcha...congratulations.

But open creds ARE the BEST answer.

Skip

While that is true to some extent, Tim. The keyword is Contributable, now while i don't really know if we have someone who would enter the nightmare scenario...only time would answer that. Right NOW we have people who Set decoration, Sound effects, better handling in the Visual Effects area (which is the most scrambled section we have) and who knows what else. Who are you or I to determine what is shareable and not, or even Ken for that matter. The Online should allow as much data as can be feasibly handled, this being largely text, there is no issue or minimal issue space-wise, it then falls to EACH user to determine exactly what of that data he wants to make use of or not. I even support the concept of multiple Covers, IF space is not an issue, once again yet another issue that hollywood has foisted off on us.

I am not really interested in dictating to users what they can and cannot have, except as limited by the program. Open Credits removes one the biggest limitations that the program currently has, which also results in numerous fights and arguments about what is and isn't or what should be. Opn Creds does present challenges to us as users without a doubt, but I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives for the Online, and each user can then deal with the data as he/she sees fit.

Skip