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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Crew Names - Opening vs. End Credits |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes, it would be great if we could discuss the rules without accusing peopel of trying to twist them for their own purposes. I think the rules need to be clearer/more consistent on this. Opening credits deifitely get priority when there's a disagreement as to the movie's title. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ace:
This is why they go that way. you make a claim but you don't support it, and i am to accept when the logic of the Rules says you are wrong. Sorry, pal. Your logic is not supportable as near as I can tell and i have reason to have some background on this matter. But you just say it is so, without any basis. BACK IT UP, I can only assume that you are simply making a statement based on personal preference since you make no logical argument to support your claim.
I have explained the logic, now explain if you can, why we would do crew data in exactly the opposite manner in which we handle Cast.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's an interesting problem. Can't remember ever really encountering that before with crew. I guess I would use the approach that the end credits name takes precedence over the opening credits name. I don't have a particularly good reason for picking that, but a choice needs to be made and this way it's consistent with the cast rules. Frankly I'm indifferent as to which way we go, but I can't really come up with a compelling argument not to defer to the end credits. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've seen it several times, midnit, and used exactly the approach of the end credits for the reasons I have explained, it is consistent with the way we handle the cast data, and i have yet to see anyone offer a logical argument why we should be inconsistent. Now why is it not in the Rules...that is simple, just like many issues that users want to complain about and not listen, at the time the Rules were developed it was not an issue that had been seen or at least not really paid any attention to. I don't remember how many times I have seen this, something less than 10 out of the 4500 Profiles I track, but I do remember the first time i saw it, there was not even a question in my mind how to handle it. The logic was absolutely obvious to deal with the data in a consistent way. I suppose we COULD use the Common name to capture the Open Creds and the Credited As to capture the End, but that would require a Rules mod by Ken, right now the answer is obvious.
As I have said many times despite all the Sound and Fury here, I have NEVER in the last 4 years run into something that is not covered in some way by the Rules or had any problem with the data, I ocassionally run into the odd crew roles that leaves me wondering whether or not it needs to be added to the Rules or the program definitions. But all the issues that i see people bringing here to argue over...NEVER.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 823 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
Perhaps you can explain it, unicus. Everything you said was valid, but you were needlessly argumentative instead of friendly. When you behave that way, it annoys and frustrates users, which ends up driving them away; not a good thing. You should try to change that. | | | | 99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Grendell:
When people don't address the issues that are raised then my reaction is absolutely valid. My first post was friendly and explained the logic. What followed was that no one has yet made attempt to explain why we should treat Crew the opposite of the way we would handle cast given the same instance. That gets annoying, quickly. I am still waiting for that LOGICAL argument, knowing full wel, that one cannot be created. So while i privately apologized to Movieman and will gladly say I am sorry for upsetting him. I think there are several users who should apologize to me, for attempting to create arguments with no substantiation and even from you for having no comprehension of the reason that I reacted as I did.
With Unicus, I disagreed with him in a friendly tone what his logic was. Unicus, after all was involved in the Rules Team and might have something that i had overlooked. Ace on the other hand made a statement of fact, which was really nothing more than his unsupported opinion, and he has no basis to infer his statement with any validity since he was not involved at any time, that is annoying as ....If you want to discuss as I have said many times , great I love to discuss, but you better bring your guns, I will and i did, and all the response that was brought was opinions not supported by anything. Okay. If you aren't prepared to discuss and debate then don't.
Still waiting, BTW for a logical argument as to why Crew data should be treated differently than Cast under the SAME circumstance. I even explained preciosely why the Crew data was overlooked in this regard. So there may be some criticism to go around, Grendell but you need to spread it all around.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
My first post was friendly and explained the logic. No it wasn't Quoting Jubal: Quote:
Personal preferemnce has no place in the data entry EVER, except for locally. When you say that, it sounds like you are accusing the person you are responding to of privileging their personal preferences over good data or the needs of the community. They're bound to react negatively. If you could explain your reasoning without throwing in accusations, we'd all get along much better. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
Still waiting, BTW for a logical argument as to why Crew data should be treated differently than Cast under the SAME circumstance. I even explained preciosely why the Crew data was overlooked in this regard. So there may be some criticism to go around, Grendell but you need to spread it all around. I, for one, can't give you a logical argument as I don't believe there is one. Clearly, they should both be treated the same way. All I meant to say, and it is exactly what I did say, was that TheMovieman did not violate the rules. Since this situation is not covered in the rules, picking one method over the other...while it may not make sense...isn't against the rules. In any case, as you said, it is over and done with. If you and TheMovieman have cleared the air in PMs, who are we to muck it up again. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Quoting Jubal:
Quote:
My first post was friendly and explained the logic.
No it wasn't
Quoting Jubal:
Quote:
Personal preferemnce has no place in the data entry EVER, except for locally.
When you say that, it sounds like you are accusing the person you are responding to of privileging their personal preferences over good data or the needs of the community. They're bound to react negatively. If you could explain your reasoning without throwing in accusations, we'd all get along much better. Ace: It was not I that used the term personal prefernce now was it. I was responding to the use of the terminology by another user. And explaining the logic and ultimately even the reason that the Crew did not have the same statement tied to it as cast. You made an ill-informed statement of fact that you did not bother to support in any way. If you want to discuss then bring your guns, don't leave them on the table and expect me to grant you any credibility at all, because you have none, when you make statements such as the one that you made. If you can't bring an argument or only pretend with an unsupported statement of your opinion, then stay out of it. I like discussion and debate, i don't like people who simply bring a totally unsupported opinion in from nowhere and do say with an air of uummmmm authority which is not in any way possessed. The we will get along much better, to use your own language. In short, Ace I don't appreciate your unsupported comment, to put it bluntly it PO'd me, and you pretend to be innocent and lecture ME, you do some brass ones don't you. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | What are you going on about? I didn't even disagree with you. You were correct, but seemed awfully harsh and were implying bad faith. I pointed out that their are legitimate reasons to be confused on this point, but didn't actually contradict you. For the love of god, assume good faith. This is a good general rule for all of life, not just DVD Profiler. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Jubal:
Quote:
Still waiting, BTW for a logical argument as to why Crew data should be treated differently than Cast under the SAME circumstance. I even explained preciosely why the Crew data was overlooked in this regard. So there may be some criticism to go around, Grendell but you need to spread it all around.
I, for one, can't give you a logical argument as I don't believe there is one. Clearly, they should both be treated the same way. All I meant to say, and it is exactly what I did say, was that TheMovieman did not violate the rules. Since this situation is not covered in the rules, picking one method over the other...while it may not make sense...isn't against the rules.
In any case, as you said, it is over and done with. If you and TheMovieman have cleared the air in PMs, who are we to muck it up again. But you see Unicus, mi amigo. i don't take the Rules in bits and pieces to create the desired interpretation. Granted that this is not specifically covered in the Rules, but again taking the Rules as a whole, it is addressed in the Cast data and there is absolutely no logical reason to treat the crew data in a toitally different way, thus it would be against the Rules.  Why does Hollywood do this, who knows, certainly not me, why does Hollywood do anything. We could always create a conspiracy theory.  They monitor these forums and delight in figuring out ways to gum up the works. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Yes, it would be great if we could discuss the rules without accusing peopel of trying to twist them for their own purposes. I think the rules need to be clearer/more consistent on this. Opening credits deifitely get priority when there's a disagreement as to the movie's title. Ace: That is what you said. And by the way to address your specific point there. No, the Opening Credits do NOT get any priority over a movie's title. That is probably one of the arguments you missed out on during one of your disappearances. Though I personally probably would agree with you. "Title Use the title from the front cover." There is nothing in the Rules that provides for the On Screen title. Isee what basically happened was that I misconstrued your bringing in title data info to a crew discussion. My bad. But we don't use the On Screen title PERIOD, not at all. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
Quoting Jubal:
Quote:
My first post was friendly and explained the logic.
No it wasn't
Quoting Jubal:
Quote:
Personal preferemnce has no place in the data entry EVER, except for locally.
When you say that, it sounds like you are accusing the person you are responding to of privileging their personal preferences over good data or the needs of the community. They're bound to react negatively. If you could explain your reasoning without throwing in accusations, we'd all get along much better. Let me address one more point for you. Let me ask you what knowledge you have to draw on. I stated factually that my first post was friendly, I just ran a diagnostics check on myself and can find no traces of Ace running around inside my skull. So just where do you come off making such a claim. You can state that in your opinion it was not friendly, but since it is my brain and my thoughts I believe that outweighs your opinion. I would never presume to make such a statement relative to you or anyone else, Ace. You could even say that you did not perceive it to be friendly, and that would carry some weight, to which I would reply that my initial post was intended to be friendly, direct perhaps but friendly nonetheless. I don't wish to argue, Ace. But I do want you to understand, Gendell too for that matter, that it's always a two way street. It's not just your way or my way. Sometimes you need to look to what you or others are saying that may trigger a response. And for the record Personal Prefernce is always going to get precisely the same response from me, it always has and always will, personal preference has no place except for a given users local database. It's not terminology that I use or like to see used in reference to the Online, and i would think you would understand that Ace, it calls up bad memories of the days when users were battling over whose personal preference would be the data in the Online and the resulting circus that caused. One title which ken told us was edited 2000 times, 2000 times, that's insane, all as a result of users exercising their personal preference, YUCK. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,946 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
"Title
There is nothing in the Rules that provides for the On Screen title. Skip Actually Skip, there is: Original TitleThe Original Title field serves two general purposes, but in both cases allows for the tracking of the original feature title. Use the title from the film's credits. In cases where the title is the original title, leave the Original Title field blank. Now suppose you have a movie where the "Original Title" is spelled differently in the opening and end credits. My logic, and I guess this is what Ace was referring to, is to use the "Original Title" from the Opening credits. Or do I assume wrong ??? | | | View my collection at http://www.chriskepolis.be/home/dvd.htm
Chris | | | | Last edited: by cvermeylen |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,018 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Jubal: Quote:
I have NEVER in the last 4 years run into something that is not covered in some way by the Rules ...
Skip You must have never tried to enter a CoO or Media Company then...  | | | | Last edited: by dee1959jay |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | deejay:
Never had a problem with either, but my definition of the Media Company remains the original definiton, this new game about publishers and so forth I won't play. COO is not a problem.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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