Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
It's better than perverting the very foundation of the Rules.

Skip

This is your opinion and you are, of course, entitled to it.  But despited the fact that you were instrumental in writing the rules, you seem to forget that the rules say what they say, not what you INTENDED for them to say -- as has been pointed out to you so many times that I can't begin to count them.

I notice that you have not answered Lars question as to where Ken or Gerri said that this issue is under consideration.  I think you are distorting what everyone else knows by what has been said by Gerri, particularly, to suit your own personal preference.  This is not fair to newbies to make blanket statements that have no basis in fact other than the fact that you state them.  I'm certainly willing to accept a change from Ken and Gerri -- if in fact that is their wish -- but I am not willing to accept this because it is what you "trust that Ken and gerrin will ultimately agree [with]."  I have seen nothing that would indicate that either of the Invelos bosses is reconsidering this matter other than your statement -- and your track record for predicting what they will decide hasn't been too good lately.

Quoting VibroCount:

Quote:
Are we required to use the end credits only? Or can we use the DVD itself to resolve some of the uppercase to lowercase questions?

In the past, when an end credit was difficult to read, we have used DVD extras to assist us in resolving these problems. [...] It seems to me, if the end credits are in all caps, but an extra feature on the DVD itself shows that THEO is, in fact, Théo, then it can be entered into the master database as Théo.

Can we please discuss this specific case, instead of general use of accents/diacritics?
So let me rephrase the original question(s)...

1) Do we "add" accents to names of non-French actors/cast members in French releases of non-French films?
2) Would you accept "Théo" as the correct spelling for an English or American actor/director, if the name was capitalised in the film credits of their French DVD release?
3) Do capitalisation rules of the country of DVD release, or the country of the cast member apply?

Personally, I don't like going by the covers/extras to resolve this, as I have seen quite a few mispelled names on them over the years. I suspect that the French production company who worked on the covers/menus assumed that "Théo" is the correct spelling, as this is the common spelling there.

Note that the director himself spells his name as "Theo" in French (see link to his official French Bio in my previous post). According to his biography has studied in France for a number of years (Sorbonne, IDHEC), so should know how to use accents 

Regards, Tony

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
It's better than perverting the very foundation of the Rules.

kdh1949 is absolutely right. All we have on the matter is a certain clarification from Gerri (link). We all know you don't agree with it, but there has been no statement from Ken or Gerri to say that the matter is under consideration. As you so often do, you keep on forcing your own opinion onto the community, even if it clashes with Gerri's own clarification. Luckily, most of us know when to ignore you, but here you're actually making false blanket statements in response to tony_m's "newbie question". Regardless of how I feel about this particular issue, I truly find that kind of behaviour objectionable. You're presenting your own conflicting opinion as fact in a reply to an "unsuspecting" user, while you're well aware of Invelos' current official stance on the matter.

Again: the link above shows what Gerri said on the subject (even more on page five of the same thread) - and anything else is purely your conflicting opinion. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion - I just wish you'd stop presenting it as the ultimate truth. I'd also urge you to follow your own advice: "make no interpretations and wait to see what Ken and Gerri come back to us with." That as opposed to your current method of constantly whining about the decision, falsely declaring that the issue is "under consideration", meanwhile voting against correct updates following Gerri's instructions to the letter.

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The CA system is a goodie it ius not a cornerstone to the Rules in any way, which is why I support using the CA system for this data.

It may not be the cornerstone of the rules - simply because large parts of the rules predate the introduction of "credited as" - but to me, it certainly is the cornerstone of the software. There's simply no use in collecting just "as credited" data from movie credits: we might as well make a series op screen caps from the credits and store them as JPEGs. Those would be 100% "accurate", yet of no use to anyone. One of the main reasons for creating a database with cast and crew data (there's more, of course, but you'll agree that the cast and crew sections form the most time-consuming part of entering profiles into DVD Profiler) is... linking! Before we had "credited as", this just wasn't possible. Sure, this system still has some problems, and we're still stuck with a database largely filled with IMDb-data, but things are slowly getting better, and at least locally I can have 100% accuracy. You may regard "credited as" as a "goodie", but to me, even with its flaws, it's the defining feature that makes using DVD Profiler worthwile.

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Tony:

I will tell you to list the data exactly as you see it On Screen, make no interpretations and we wait to see what Ken and Gerri come back to us wth.

That's a bad advise. He has to change capitalisation. The rules tell him that he can't add the data as he sees it on screen because the data on sceen is all caps.

Quoting tony_m:

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I have just checked the credits of the French DVD release in question, where he is credited as "THEO ANGELOPOULOS".

Quoting skipnet50:

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Tony:

I will tell you to list the data exactly as you see it On Screen, make no interpretations and we wait to see what Ken and Gerri come back to us wth.

Quoting skipnet50:

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In your opiniion it is bad advice, Rho. YOU had NOTHING to do with the development of the Rules however...DID YOU. So with all due respect, you haven't really got a clue other than you think you know more than the person who did develop the concept.

Skip

You really do advise him to enter "THEO ANGELOPOULOS" until Ken and Gerri come back to us wth? That would be against the rules.

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
It's better than perverting the very foundation of the Rules.

kdh1949 is absolutely right. All we have on the matter is a certain clarification from Gerri (link). We all know you don't agree with it, but there has been no statement from Ken or Gerri to say that the matter is under consideration. As you so often do, you keep on forcing your own opinion onto the community, even if it clashes with Gerri's own clarification. Luckily, most of us know when to ignore you, but here you're actually making false blanket statements in response to tony_m's "newbie question". Regardless of how I feel about this particular issue, I truly find that kind of behaviour objectionable. You're presenting your own conflicting opinion as fact in a reply to an "unsuspecting" user, while you're well aware of Invelos' current official stance on the matter.

Again: the link above shows what Gerri said on the subject (even more on page five of the same thread) - and anything else is purely your conflicting opinion. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion - I just wish you'd stop presenting it as the ultimate truth.

Quote:
The CA system is a goodie it ius not a cornerstone to the Rules in any way, which is why I support using the CA system for this data.

It may not be the cornerstone of the rules - simply because large parts of the rules predate the introduction of "credited as" - but to me, it certainly is the cornerstone of the software. There's simply no use in collecting just "as credited" data from movie credits: we might as well make a series op screen caps from the credits and store them as JPEGs. Those would be 100% "accurate", yet of no use to anyone. One of the main reasons for creating a database with cast and crew data (there's more, of course, but you'll agree that the cast and crew sections form the most time-consuming part of entering profiles into DVD Profiler) is... linking! Before we had "credited as", this just wasn't possible. Sure, this system still has some problems, and we're still stuck with a database largely filled with IMDb-data, but things are slowly getting better, and at least locally I can have 100% accuracy. You may regard "credited as" as a "goodie", but to me, even with its flaws, it's the defining feature that makes using DVD Profiler worthwile.

Tim:

You don't understand the difference bewteen the software and the Rules and how damaging it is to allow everyone to go flying off in theri own direction. I am waiting for Gerri's clarification on the topic.

And BTW just so you know the only cornerstone it serves is at the local level, the CA system does next to nothing at the Online level. It is a personal usage tool. Ken MIGHT choose to make it interface with the Online but I don't see that as likely. I wouldn't, due to the fact that the user Community absolutely refuses to play from one single page, they all want to have their own little page of influence in the online.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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I am waiting for Gerri's clarification on the topic.

You mean a different clarification than she has already given.

Quoting tony_m:

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So, based on the rules (as clarified by Gerri), I will drop the accent when converting the credited "THEO ANGELOPOULOS" to lower case, considering the Greek origin of the name (Theodoros) and the nationality of the director.

T.

and you need to document your change in the contribution notes:
Theo Angelopoulos (if you did not have this one allready  )