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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Title question: "Terminator Salvation" or "Terminator: Salvation" |
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| Author |
Message |
 | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | Although I can see the argument for Terminator: Salvation, I've always thought of it as Terminator Salvation. I've also never heard it spoken as (i.e. pause between words) as Terminator: Salvation.
The Burton/Schumacher Batman films didn't go:
Batman
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman: & Robin
For those movies each title was a phrase, so why not this? At the end of the day, this particular title doesn't affect me (and both arguments have merit), but it does have wider implications.
Just because a series starts with the same word for each, should not automatically make it an "episodic title" with Title: Subtitle. That said, I'm really not sure with this one. It's not as clear-cut as something like Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4, released on Blu-ray here as Die Hard 4.0... which I wouldn't put a colon in). | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | One evening not here and here is war, what happened?
I just wanted to here another opinion, if my guess of the original titles for the Tomb Raider movies are right. -> To correct a profile which it was wrong in database.
I got this answer from Skip and reconfirmed by TheMadMartian.
Didn't know the UPC is interesting for something like that, because the original title should be same in every locality and version of a movie.
And I think it's good to correct this "mistake" in a profile, because we users need it for the CLT. So I think it should be correct.
If I just want to work, for me I would make it, like I think it's right and just keep it locally, but DVDProfiler is living from contributions and that's why I ask and want to make it correct. |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
...
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman: & Robin
...
Just because a series starts with the same word for each, should not automatically make it an "episodic title" with Title: Subtitle. That said, I'm really not sure with this one. It's not as clear-cut as something like Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4, released on Blu-ray here as Die Hard 4.0... which I wouldn't put a colon in). Die Hard 4.0 / Live free or die hard is a special thing. I think it was released in USA as Die Hard 4.0 and in other countries as Live free or die hard, or was it other way round. The Batman series is a good example. And there will always be some title which aren't clear. But imho I think, we or better the rules commitee should do their the best to find a way, to make/explain the rules so that we always get preferably the same conclusion as original title. | | | | Last edited: by VirusPil |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forum Moderator: Quote:
Please be advised that the ban hammer is in full swing. Please keep all posts on topic and avoid personal attacks. Posts in violation of this will be edited and/or removed.
Repeated OR severe violations will result in temp bans. If you find yourself unable to post, the hammer has spoken. In general, your rights to post will return the following day. If the ban is longer, you will receive a PM detailing the duration.
Thanks to http://www.simviation.com for the pic! At last the trolling pays off. Certain members are not going to have the rule for much longer around here. I hope this leads to a more equal bases on here as many ppl have some great things to say on this program. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting W0m6at: Quote:
Although I can see the argument for Terminator: Salvation, I've always thought of it as Terminator Salvation. I've also never heard it spoken as (i.e. pause between words) as Terminator: Salvation.
The Burton/Schumacher Batman films didn't go:
Batman
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman: & Robin
For those movies each title was a phrase, so why not this? At the end of the day, this particular title doesn't affect me (and both arguments have merit), but it does have wider implications.
Just because a series starts with the same word for each, should not automatically make it an "episodic title" with Title: Subtitle. That said, I'm really not sure with this one. It's not as clear-cut as something like Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4, released on Blu-ray here as Die Hard 4.0... which I wouldn't put a colon in). "Batman Returns" and "Batman Forever" are good examples. "Batman & Robin", however, is all the same font size. The credit blocks would support your position on all three. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VirusPil: Quote:
Quoting W0m6at:
Quote:
...
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman: & Robin
...
Just because a series starts with the same word for each, should not automatically make it an "episodic title" with Title: Subtitle. That said, I'm really not sure with this one. It's not as clear-cut as something like Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4, released on Blu-ray here as Die Hard 4.0... which I wouldn't put a colon in).
Die Hard 4.0 / Live free or die hard is a special thing. I think it was released in USA as Die Hard 4.0 and in other countries as Live free or die hard, or was it other way round.
The Batman series is a good example. And there will always be some title which aren't clear. But imho I think, we or better the rules commitee should do their the best to find a way, to make/explain the rules so that we always get preferably the same conclusion as original title. The U.S. release was "Live Free or Die Hard". | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: January 1, 2009 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,087 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Quoting W0m6at:
Quote:
...
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman: & Robin
...
Just because a series starts with the same word for each, should not automatically make it an "episodic title" with Title: Subtitle. That said, I'm really not sure with this one. It's not as clear-cut as something like Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4, released on Blu-ray here as Die Hard 4.0... which I wouldn't put a colon in).
Die Hard 4.0 / Live free or die hard is a special thing. I think it was released in USA as Die Hard 4.0 and in other countries as Live free or die hard, or was it other way round.
The Batman series is a good example. And there will always be some title which aren't clear. But imho I think, we or better the rules commitee should do their the best to find a way, to make/explain the rules so that we always get preferably the same conclusion as original title.
The U.S. release was "Live Free or Die Hard". You're right. Yesterday night I didn't want to search. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die_Hard |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would like to get back to Lara Croft. On the cover, there is no ":" separating Lara Croft from Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider is not episodic, it is a description of Lara Croft. So if we were to strictly follow the rules, wouldn't the title be Lara Croft Tomb Raider Lara Croft Tomb Raider : Cradle of Life. I will grant you, the credit block says Lara Croft : Tomb Raider, but the cover doesn't have a colon. By this standard, aren't we "inventing" or inferring data.  I'm just sayin'.... Charlie |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | You would need either a colon or a comma or the word "the" between lara Croft and Tomb Raider for it to make any grammatical sense. Colon makes the most sense to just add and that is how the movie is typically written. |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ace_of_Sevens: Quote:
You would need either a colon or a comma or the word "the" between lara Croft and Tomb Raider for it to make any grammatical sense. Colon makes the most sense to just add and that is how the movie is typically written. But we as profilers only care about the representation, not grammatical sense. There isn't a colon represented on the cover, therefore by the rules, there should be no colon in the title field. While in reality Ace, I do agree with you, but we display what is on the cover no matter how it should be interpreted or inferred, only how it appears. I say again, if we make exceptions for one, to make grammatical sense, then why not others. So either the rule needs a change, which I could support, or we need to enter it exactly (within program limitations) how it is on the screen. Therefore Lara Croft Tomb Raider Lara Croft Tomb Raider : Cradle of life (rule for episodic extensions) I know that I am arguing an extreme point, but this has been told to me time and time again. Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are, of course, correct Charlie. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: December 10, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree this rule needs to change. There seems to be an unofficial understanding that by episode they really mean subtitle, which may or may not be episode related and a lot of confusion over what is and isn't a subtitle. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't see any real confusion, a lot of self-induced maybe . Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
I don't see any real confusion, a lot of self-induced maybe .
Skip Maybe not confusion, but a rule that is ambiguous at best. Whereas The Cradle of Life may very well be episodic in the way it is presented (the 2nd in the series), Batman & Robin, the 4th in the series is not. We do not even begin to enter it as "Batman: & Robin". "Matrix : Revolutions" would be correct "The Bourne : Ultimatum" probably is not, "Terminator Salvation" apparently is questionable either way. So there is questions that do need to be answered. Charlie |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Charlie:
I do mot call it ambiguous at all. I understand it completely. I also recognize that there is no such as a a perfect Rule. There will always be somebody that will find something or other and try to claim abiguity. We see all the time, right here. We will never ever be alble to elminate every possibility of potential. issue, my question is why are these people finding these "issues". Are they being honest about their "confusion", or do they have an agenda of some sort. Many of these issues are not unknown, and siome of them were unknown or unrelaized. I have a conclusion that is based only upon behaior and attitude of the users involved, and it is a small few, typically the same few who start these things as if they were brand new.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | So back to the original OP
Terminal Salvation---
is it Terminator Salvation - complete title without subtitle (episodic indication) (like Batman & Robin)
or is it Terminator : Salvation - with subtitle (like Star Trek: First Contact)
It can be either way. And if it is one way or the other, how do we determine it?
Ambiguous - open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations.
Definition seems to fit. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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