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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Okay, so here's a film where the end credits show the full array of sound crew: production sound, supervising sound editor, and re-recording. But then, after all that, somewhere deep down in the end credits, there's this:
ADDITIONAL SOUND
<name> Supervising Sound Editors <name>
<name> Re-Recording Mixer
Do these people get a credit in DVD Profiler? If not (I'm a big fan of the "no additional anything" principle), then fine. But if you say "yes", then please also indicate whether you'd be in favor of using an "Additional Sound" group divider, too. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | I think you're being a bit misleading in your post T!M.
You say the additional crew are somewhere deep down in the end credits - whereas in the film in question the additional crew follow directly on from the previous sound crew; literally the next 'page' of credits.
There is also nothing in the rules that states to leave out 'Additional' anything - just to be picky.
It is simply a forum conceit to omit these people.
Many Visual Effects company credits are listed under 'Additional Visual Effects' but everyone adds these to profiles.
But - if you look at the rules nowhere does it state 'Do NOT include Additional anything' - whereas the rules DO state to exclude Co-anything. |
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Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 6,730 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote: Many Visual Effects company credits are listed under 'Additional Visual Effects' but everyone adds these to profiles.
"Everyone" in this case means whom? Because I, for one, don't Quoting Pantheon: Quote: But - if you look at the rules nowhere does it state 'Do NOT include Additional anything' - whereas the rules DO state to exclude Co-anything. I liked this argument and transferred it to my microwave. While I can find a "Do not put live animals into the microwave", nobody explicitly disallows the peeing into it ... still I wouldn't do it | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up! But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 | | | Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote: Quoting Pantheon:
Quote: But - if you look at the rules nowhere does it state 'Do NOT include Additional anything' - whereas the rules DO state to exclude Co-anything. I liked this argument and transferred it to my microwave.
While I can find a "Do not put live animals into the microwave", nobody explicitly disallows the peeing into it ... still I wouldn't do it Well, seeing as we're not dealing with a cooking appliance I guess that's fine. |
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Registered: May 11, 2007 | Posts: 30 |
| Posted: | | | | I have never used Additional Cast in my contributions before, but now I read this topic I wonder, because the rules says: "Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". So why not contribute Additional Crew?. I would have used a divider for it, because it is a "Crew Team" |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,197 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Laff1: Quote: I have never used Additional Cast in my contributions before, but now I read this topic I wonder, because the rules says: "Use Group dividers to designate cast grouped in the credits such as "Soldiers" or "Additional Cast". So why not contribute Additional Crew?.
How about because it's a cast rule, not a crew rule. This is not a game of picking any part you like in the rules and applying it to some other unrelated part. although some contributors seem to be picking up on the idea... | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 | | | Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | I agree with KinoNiki that the Cast rules should not be transferred to Crew rules.
Simply look at the Crew table and rules and you will see that there is nothing excluding the inclusion of Additional crew.
Each of the crew referred to in the opening post were listed with specific jobs that match the Crew table exactly: Sound Re-Recording Mixer and Supervising Sound Editor...they just happened to be under a heading of Additional Crew.
I would possibly understand an argument for their exclusion if they were listed as: Additional Re-Recording Mixer Additional Supervising Sound Editor
...but even then the rules do not exclude their inclusion.
This profile was the first time I had ever come across this situation - so I checked the rules before I removed these people from the profile. I couldn't find anything in the rules to allow their removal so I left them in the profile.
T!M could also find nothing in the rules to exclude them - which is why he has started this thread to gain the support of the forum. However, as has been mentioned many times over the last few weeks - this forum has absolutely no power over the rules; so it doesn't really matter what we think. |
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| Corne | Registered: Nov. 1, 2000 |
Registered: April 5, 2007 | Posts: 1,059 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote: I agree with KinoNiki that the Cast rules should not be transferred to Crew rules.
Simply look at the Crew table and rules and you will see that there is nothing excluding the inclusion of Additional crew.
Each of the crew referred to in the opening post were listed with specific jobs that match the Crew table exactly: Sound Re-Recording Mixer and Supervising Sound Editor...they just happened to be under a heading of Additional Crew.
I would possibly understand an argument for their exclusion if they were listed as: Additional Re-Recording Mixer Additional Supervising Sound Editor
...but even then the rules do not exclude their inclusion.
This profile was the first time I had ever come across this situation - so I checked the rules before I removed these people from the profile. I couldn't find anything in the rules to allow their removal so I left them in the profile.
T!M could also find nothing in the rules to exclude them - which is why he has started this thread to gain the support of the forum. However, as has been mentioned many times over the last few weeks - this forum has absolutely no power over the rules; so it doesn't really matter what we think. Completely true. You're allowed to add just a part of the crew (so leaving out the additional crew). Once added it can't be removed because that's against the rules. It's as simple as that. A NO-vote to a contribution of additional crew isn't by the rules either. | | | Cor |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | The rules say, "Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements." It could certainly be argued that this is a 'crew team' so, based on my reading of the rules, absent a statement from Ken, they seem to be allowed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Registered: May 9, 2007 | Posts: 1,536 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Okay, so here's a film where the end credits show the full array of sound crew: production sound, supervising sound editor, and re-recording. But then, after all that, somewhere deep down in the end credits, there's this:
ADDITIONAL SOUND
<name> Supervising Sound Editors <name>
<name> Re-Recording Mixer
Do these people get a credit in DVD Profiler? If not (I'm a big fan of the "no additional anything" principle), then fine. But if you say "yes", then please also indicate whether you'd be in favour of using an "Additional Sound" group divider, too. There is no rule requiring you (personally) to add them. If you don't like it, leave them out, and leave it to someone else, and lock the crew credits, maybe. | | | Hans |
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Registered: March 16, 2007 | Posts: 278 |
| Posted: | | | | Is there any reason to believe these credits are part of a unit crew? If that's the case. they are explicitly disallowed. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote: The rules say, "Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements." It could certainly be argued that this is a 'crew team' so, based on my reading of the rules, absent a statement from Ken, they seem to be allowed. It can be argued that they are a crew team, but you ignore the part that say that they have to meet the listing requirements, so the divider rule can't be used in this argument. The Divider rule only specifies that you can use a divider IF the crew are allowed (in another part of the rules) Back in October you argued that an Additional Sound Editor isn't allowed, and since the sound editor in this is example is under the header additional sound, he is also an additional sound editor. | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote: Is there any reason to believe these credits are part of a unit crew? If that's the case. they are explicitly disallowed. No, they are not part of a Unit crew. |
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Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,819 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote: The rules say, "Also use Group dividers for crew teams, included only if the crew meets the other listing requirements." It could certainly be argued that this is a 'crew team' so, based on my reading of the rules, absent a statement from Ken, they seem to be allowed.
It can be argued that they are a crew team, but you ignore the part that say that they have to meet the listing requirements, so the divider rule can't be used in this argument. The Divider rule only specifies that you can use a divider IF the crew are allowed (in another part of the rules)
Back in October you argued that an Additional Sound Editor isn't allowed, and since the sound editor in this is example is under the header additional sound, he is also an additional sound editor. I see what you're getting at. But, these people are listed as per rules: Supervising Sound Editor and Re-Recording Mixers. The fact they are under an 'Additional Crew' header shouldn't make any difference. |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 906 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote: The fact they are under an 'Additional Crew' header shouldn't make any difference. I disagree. If the header had been '2nd unit' it would have made all the difference. In my opinion, the header is part of the crew role. To me, this topic isn't a question is about dividers but whether we should add "additional anything" credits. But I guess we look at it from different perspectives. | | | The colour of her eyes, were the colour of insanity |
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| T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting reybr: Quote: Quoting Pantheon:
Quote: The fact they are under an 'Additional Crew' header shouldn't make any difference.
I disagree. If the header had been '2nd unit' it would have made all the difference. Exactly! |
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