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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Common Names: Number of Titles vs Profiles |
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Registered: July 16, 2010 | Reputation: | Posts: 527 |
| Posted: | | | | I’m a bit confused. I’ve just been checking a cast member’s name and the Credit Lookup Tool gives the two most common variations of this as 7 titles / 167 profiles vs 36 titles / 136 profiles. Should the one with the greatest number of titles or greatest number of profiles be considered the Common Name? I would have thought the number of titles would be the most significant, but the Rules don't seem to address this very clearly. I’m sure this must have been considered before but I can’t find anything about it anywhere. Thanks. As background information: The individual in question is Christopher Brian Bridges. The variations seem to be: Chris "Ludacris" Bridges 7/167 Chris Ludacris Bridges 5/18 Ludacris or "Ludacris" (the CLT seems to treat them as the same) 36/136 Chris Bridges 14/76 (but most are for a make-up artist.) Christopher Bridges 4/11 (but all as the song writer rather than an actor.) Christopher "Ludacris" Bridges 0/0 Christopher Ludacris Bridges 0/0 Christopher Brian Bridges 0/0 Chris Brian Bridges 0/0 Wikipedia (and lots of other sites) give his real name as Christopher Brian Bridges. Be nice to each other. Thanks - Paul | | | Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it? Guttermouth "Lemon Water". Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally. So I'm an anarchist, deal with it. Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted... | | | Last edited: by SpikyCactus |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting SpikyCactus: Quote: Should the one with the greatest number of titles or greatest number of profiles be considered the Common Name? It's about the largest number of different titles, not the number of profiles. Ken answered that question here. You'll have to manually "weed out" any other people mixing into those numbers, though - like the make-up artist you already noticed - to arrive at what the actual common name for this particular guy is. If you're unsure, you can always start a common name-finding thread for him. For the record: what Wikipedia, any other site, or even the guy himself considers to be his "real" name is irrelevant for our purposes. Here, it's just about the name variant he's mostly credited as. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: July 16, 2010 | Reputation: | Posts: 527 |
| Posted: | | | | You read my mind (and edited your reply)!
Right okay.
So is the number of movies different to the number of titles or not? (Example? So are Star Wars: Geeks Editon and Star Wars: Ordinary Editon, two movies and two titles, or one movie and two titles?)
(Note: No one get too excited, I made those ones up; there aren't really two more versions of Star Wars floating about.) | | | Do you ever find yourself striving for perfection with an almost worthless attempt at it? Guttermouth "Lemon Water". Also, I include in my Profiler database VHS tapes, audio DVDs, audio books (digital, cassette and CD), video games (digital, DVD and CD) and 'enhanced' CDs with video tracks on them, as well as films and TV I've bought digitally. So I'm an anarchist, deal with it. Just be thankful I don't include most of my records and CDs etc in it too; don't think I haven't been tempted... | | | Last edited: by SpikyCactus |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting SpikyCactus: Quote: So is the number of movies different to the number of titles or not? Ideally, they're not. In reality, you'll often find the number of titles as reported by the CLT extremely bloated (thus: the CLT reporting a higher number of titles than the actual number of films the guy acted in). This tends to be caused by profiles missing the proper "original title" (that's the field the CLT looks to for determining the number of different titles), profiles for the same film with different production years entered, or worse: when there are TV credits in there (the CLT incorrectly counts every translated season/disc indicator as a different "title"). All these things often cause the CLT toreport higher numbers than we should get. Especially when the numbers for different name variants are close together, it may be worth checking up on these problems to find out what the common name really is. This is where the aforemenioned common name-finding threads come in. Quote: So are Star Wars: Geeks Editon and Star Wars: Ordinary Editon, two movies and two titles, or one movie and two titles? Better yet: one movie and one title. The CLT's title count ignores the "Edition" field. As such, 'Star Wars: Geeks Editon' and 'Star Wars: Ordinary Editon' would count as one title: both 'Star Wars'. Of course, this relies on the users having entered the edition in the proper field - if it's incorrectly stored as part of the "Title" field rather than in the "Edition" field, then it goes awry - yet another reason why the numbers can get off the track... |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | In fact rules ask to use CLT results. Documentation can modify those results if it is proven that they concern different persons with same name, or if data do not reproduce exactly credits.
All other considerations about CLT counts are not covered by rules, so should not be used. Ken choose a design for CLT and asked to use it. Some users may consider that tool is not perfect (in my case I even think it is a nightmare), but it is what Invelos wanted and asks to use for contribution. In local, every user can do what he wants. | | | Images from movies |
| Registered: May 9, 2007 | Posts: 1,536 |
| Posted: | | | | Using a tool does not mean using it blindly.
I agree with T!M that the CLT tool should be used intelligently, as he described. Fortunately, in many cases the results for titles are far enough apart to make an easy decision, especially in case of spelling errors where one variant name only occurs once. | | | Hans |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: In fact rules ask to use CLT results. No, they don't. While the rules tell us to use the CLT, they do not say to blindly trust the CLT results. Quoting Ken Cole: Quote: The lookup tool is not to be blindly trusted There's a big difference between blindly trusting the numbers and actually using the CLT to find out the truth. Per Ken, we do the latter. It's a tool, a pretty basic one, that helps us in determining the common name, but it's no more than that. It's not a one-stop-solution, and Invelos publicly acknowledged that right from the start. |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting surfeur51:
Quote: In fact rules ask to use CLT results. No, they don't.
Rules : "To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool. .... The inclusion of CLT results in contribution notes is strongly desired but not required." | | | Images from movies |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | And we should indeed use the tool - not trust the numbers blindly. |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: ...not trust the numbers blindly. This is also my philophy, unfortunately it is not that of the rules. You want to follow them blindly on other cases, why not here? You cannot choose where you can interpret data. And now, what means being intelligent with credits for TV series ? count episodes or seasons? and what if a TV serie has a first season of 39 episode and a fouth season of two (Danger Man is the example) ? Is it intelligent to give the same weight to both seasons? And about credits. Has the credit of Heston in Planet of Apes the same importance than his cameo apparition in Burton's remake? And has the credit of an extra the same weight as the main actor? Just to show you that ideas to be intelligent may open many doors and pages of useless discussions. So, please follow rules saying we use CLT results (after correction of errors when bad representation of credits), and do not try to interpret any more. | | | Images from movies |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Quoting T!M:
Quote: ...not trust the numbers blindly.
This is also my philophy There we are. It's your philosophy, it's my philosophy, and, as has been quoted time and time again, it's Ken's official stance on the matter as well. It seems that, for once, we're all in agreement - let's leave it that, then. | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: ... and time again, it's Ken's official stance on the matter as well. Please, can you quote where Ken wrote something on how to count TV series in CLT? | | | Images from movies |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote: Please, can you quote where Ken wrote something on how to count TV series in CLT? Can you? But really: what does that have to do with Mr. Bridges' common name? |
| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 4,479 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting surfeur51:
Quote: Please, can you quote where Ken wrote something on how to count TV series in CLT? But really: what does that have to do with Mr. Bridges' common name? It has do with what you just wrote in this thread : Quoting T!M: Quote: Quoting SpikyCactus:
Quote: So is the number of movies different to the number of titles or not? Ideally, they're not. In reality, you'll often find the number of titles as reported by the CLT extremely bloated (thus: the CLT reporting a higher number of titles than the actual number of films the guy acted in). This tends to be caused by profiles missing the proper "original title" (that's the field the CLT looks to for determining the number of different titles), profiles for the same film with different production years entered, or worse: when there are TV credits in there.... As you mentioned in this thread something which is wrong, I had to precise that nowhere rules speak of TV series, so there are no way to correct CLT results for that reason. | | | Images from movies |
| | T!M | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 8,736 |
| Posted: | | | | You "precise" all you want - I trust that the threadstarter is smart enough to draw his own conclusions. |
| Registered: November 24, 2008 | Reputation: | Posts: 1,282 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting SpikyCactus: Quote: I’m a bit confused. Welcome to DVDProfiler! |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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