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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am getting ready to audit the Movie. I have 2 versions (DVD and BD). Neither one of these currently have the voice tag for any of the actors.
Since this was performance Capture animation (captured the actual movements and applied them to computer animations), except for the waiters pouring hot chocolate on the train, then the voice added later, should the voice tag be set?
Charlie |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'd say no.
I was going to say that this is similar to the animated Lord of the Rings with actors being rotoscopped over.
But looking at this it maybe that the "main" cast was motion captured and included the voices too. I think it's well known that Tom Hanks supplies the voices for several characters.
So I guess the question is do we treat a motion captured "actor" as actually being an "actor" in the animated film or is the motion capture just an effect and that since the actors don't actually appear in the film that they should be all voice unless all they are specifically credited as a "performer" as some are in Polar Express.
I'd confusing to say the least and this will likely go either way. |
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| Registered: September 30, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,805 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not really sure. There are examples on both sides at the moment. The film Monster House was motion capture (there's even costume designer & make-up artist credits for the film), and I believe most if not all those profiles have the voice box checked for the cast.
Then there's a film like Avatar, which of course isn't completely animated or CGI, but the cast that was motion captured such as Zoe Saldana don't have the voice box checked.
If I was throwing in my two cents, I'd say that the voice box should NOT be checked. If it's motion capture, then the actor still physically performed the film. The film as we know it, wouldn't exist in the same form as it does if it wasn't motion capture and if the actors didn't perform. It's not like Beauty & the Beast or The Little Mermaid where the film was animated and actors simply supplied the voices. The actors here supplied the body movements, facial experssions etc. I think that warrants the voice box not being checked.
Like I said, just my two cents though. | | | | The night is calling. And it whispers to me soflty come and play. | | | | Last edited: by Merrik |
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| Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Merrik: Quote:
If I was throwing in my two cents, I'd say that the voice box should NOT be checked. If it's motion capture, then the actor still physically performed the film. The film as we know it, wouldn't exist in the same form as it does if it wasn't motion capture and if the actors didn't perform. It's not like Beauty & the Beast or The Little Mermaid where the film was animated and actors simply supplied the voices. The actors here supplied the body movements, facial experssions etc. I think that warrants the voice box not being checked. I totally agree with that. Another example, "Beowulf" with actors like Anthony Hopkins, Robin Wright or Angelina Jolie playing with motion capture animation. | | | | Images from movies |
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| Registered: November 16, 2007 | | Posts: 80 |
| | Posted: | | | | Polar Express upc 085393895426 has voice only checked for all cast. |
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| Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
I'd say no.
But looking at this it maybe that the "main" cast was motion captured and included the voices too. I think it's well known that Tom Hanks supplies the voices for several characters.
I'd confusing to say the least and this will likely go either way. This is the reason for the question. While the conductor has a STRONG resemblance to Tom Hanks, the boy(narrator) doesn't nor the hobo and the father we never really see. But it is a multi credit (Tom Hanks as Conductor/Hero Boy/Hobo/Father/Scrooge/Santa Clause). Would like a consensus before starting... Charlie | | | | Last edited: by CharlieM |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | It is an animated film and the rules are quite clear...
•For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
...there is no exception for motion capture animation. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Posts: 663 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
It is an animated film and the rules are quite clear...
•For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
...there is no exception for motion capture animation. I would have to agree with this, because the end result was an cgi animated film. | | | We're on a mission from God.
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | . | | | | Last edited: by CubbyUps |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
It is an animated film and the rules are quite clear...
•For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
...there is no exception for motion capture animation. And then I would have to disagree. I don't find the rules clear at all since they don't mention motion capture animation. I would say it's undecided how they should be treated at this point. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
It is an animated film and the rules are quite clear...
•For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
...there is no exception for motion capture animation.
And then I would have to disagree. I don't find the rules clear at all since they don't mention motion capture animation. I would say it's undecided how they should be treated at this point. I honestly don't see how you could say it is unclear. No matter how you slice it, motion capture animation is still animation. You can pretend otherwise, but I am not going to play that game. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
It is an animated film and the rules are quite clear...
•For animated films or voice-only roles, use the "Voice" checkbox.
...there is no exception for motion capture animation.
And then I would have to disagree. I don't find the rules clear at all since they don't mention motion capture animation. I would say it's undecided how they should be treated at this point.
I honestly don't see how you could say it is unclear. No matter how you slice it, motion capture animation is still animation. You can pretend otherwise, but I am not going to play that game. Clearly you're reading things into the rules that isn't covered. But that's just your personal preference and so I guess you're up to playing your games after all. Why am I not surprised? | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
If we carry over the motion capture thing to all animated characters then does that mean Andy Serkis would have the voice box checked for playing King Kong? This is a two part rule... The first part deals with animated films. The Polar Express is an animated film, so it is covered by that portion of the rule. King Kong is not an animated film, is it is not. The second part deals with 'voice only' roles so, unfortunately, the 'interpretation door' is left open. If you consider it a 'voice only' role, you tick the box. If you don't, then you don't. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Clearly you're reading things into the rules that isn't covered. But that's just your personal preference and so I guess you're up to playing your games after all. Why am I not surprised? Are you really trying to say that motion capture animation isn't animation?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
Clearly you're reading things into the rules that isn't covered. But that's just your personal preference and so I guess you're up to playing your games after all. Why am I not surprised?
Are you really trying to say that motion capture animation isn't animation? I've never said such a a thing. I'm saying it's a type of animation that probably wasn't anticipated when the rules were written down or it should have been made clear. t's not clear to me anyway where the line between animation and acting starts and ends when I look at films like Beowulf and A Scanner Darkly. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting KinoNiki:
Quote:
Clearly you're reading things into the rules that isn't covered. But that's just your personal preference and so I guess you're up to playing your games after all. Why am I not surprised?
Are you really trying to say that motion capture animation isn't animation?
I've never said such a a thing. I never said that you said such a thing, I asked if that was what you were saying because, as far as I can see, the only way for the rule not to apply, is if you don't consider motion capture animation to be animation. Quote:
I'm saying it's a type of animation that probably wasn't anticipated when the rules were written down or it should have been made clear. If it is a type of animation, whether it was anticipated or not, it is still animation and the rule applies. I honestly don't see any wiggle room here. Quote:
It's not clear to me anyway where the line between animation and acting starts and ends when I look at films like Beowulf and A Scanner Darkly. It may not be clear to you, but it seems clear to the industry: Beowulf was nominated for eight different animation awards.A Scanner Darkly was nominated for three animation awards and won a 'Best Animation' award.The Polar Express, the film that started this thread, was also nominated for eight different animation awards...including 'Best Sound Editing in Feature Film - Animated'. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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